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eSamuels Inner circle 3085 Posts |
Recent TV contest performances have reinforced something that I've tried to promote for many years.
Performing any routine smoothly enough so that you 'own it' (ergo - it doesn't come across as a 'trick') requires extensive rehearsal and a significant number of real-world performances - ideally with the benefit of qualified, independent, critical feedback. By comparison, in the world of standup comedy, comedians will work a new 10-minute set, dozens (if not hundreds) of times in smaller rooms, including open mic stages; editing, cutting and adding elements - even once the set is locked. But in our community, we often read ad copy for an effect that promises: "you'll be performing it the same day it arrives." To some extent, this speaks to the mixed constituency of the magic and mentalism community, as we have hobbyists, semi-pros, and professionals, all sharing from the same trough. But this fact, which has always been the case, is a poor excuse, or rationale, for a terrible trend, which may well be the result of short attention spans and immediate need for gratification - both of which are pandemic. Because I would argue that, out of respect for our shared craft, any public performance requires and deserves a level of discipline and commitment to, as Orson Welles once offered in an ad campaign for Paul Masson Wines: "Sell no wine before its time." Eric |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Couldn't agree more. Performers need to realize that they are representing and need to be accountable to more than just themselves. They are part of an industry which is reflected with each and every performance they do, regardless of the medium (live, t.v. on video, podcasts, etc.). They must also be account able to clients, agents, promoters, peers and audiences as well. Poor performances reflect all us as and the entire industry.
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
I think that most people who don't perform in any way regularly, don't have an act at all...so there's nothing to go "into"...
there is also, in modernist advertising, the allure of the term "pro" to help sell something... "this is for the working pro who needs to FRY THEIR AUDIENCE!" - is catnip to certain people who are not in any way shape or form, a pro... ...also, you find all these wonderful sounding acts, by amazing people...but no one tells you how to rehearse and how to practice properly... perfecto one man mindreading act Jinx One Man Mental Club Act Annemann's Complete One Man Mental and Psychic Routine Grant Thousand Dollar Challenge Mindreading Act Dr. Q Simplicity Mindreading Act The Calostro Mind Reading Act obviously just a tiny amount of the pamphlets released...and they're amazing, but to try and understand how and why they were put together in such a way, not so much...take into account how society and culture has changed...its a big thing to approach... for me, I learned it initially through studying actors and actresses I admired, and the work that they in turn admired and performed...i noticed the power of three in the work, light and shade, the progress of the story...lots of things... i know you can watch other mentalists perform, but then you also get told to be unique - so you feel pulled in two directions at once...character development, and act development, there's not much substantial help out there for people who want to take it seriously, and for those who just like it all as a hobby, even less so.. and its not their fault that they can access it all either...
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eSamuels Inner circle 3085 Posts |
I would maintain that the development of any act is an ongoing, fluid, process that requires conscientious awareness of where we're at in terms of the wine being ready for market (to continue with that analogy).
But it doesn't end there, as even the most seasoned of professional performer can use a feedback tune-up, from time to time, and most recognize the benefit and value of such. For the more casual performer, I suspect that there are two issues at play: First, as mentioned, there's pure marketing value in promoting something as "Buy 'X' this morning and blow minds this evening!" (Copyright 2016 - so you can't use this!) Second, the ratio of 'exciting new effects' to available training resources, is (somewhat understandably) way off kilter. I say "somewhat understandably," because opening a shipping container that holds (for example) Ken Weber's: "Maximum Entertainment," is not nearly as exciting for most people as opening a box with the latest mind-blowing 'widget,' the demo of which shows people absolutely freaking out! Indeed, many, if not most performers don't even know where to go for help and feedback. I suspect that part of the problem is that there used to be much more of an emphasis on (and requirement for), mentorship in order to learn secrets. Now one only needs the internet. e |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Are you posting during Happy Hour somewhere?
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
There are a LOT more people into this "thing" nowadays, than in days past due to the fact that information is easily more available. There are many TV programs and things like youtube also helping to fuel that growth and interest. But I don't feel that anything has changed. There will always be poor performances and performers.
As for worrying about whether those performers cast a bad light on the rest of us - I'm not worried about that. I feel they only make the good performers look better. Like it or not, the "art" is an industry that is rife with people looking for the next new secret to show their family and friends. Why worry about it? |
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eSamuels Inner circle 3085 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 17, 2016, Mindpro wrote: No, just a wine lover / wino at heart. |
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eSamuels Inner circle 3085 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 17, 2016, Sudo Nimh wrote: My comments weren't really intended for those performing for 'friends & family,' but people who are performing for an audience beyond. That said, I know of several people who only perform for their co-workers, friends and family, and still treat the craft with a tremendous amount of respect, dedication, and commitment. Because the problem is that mentalism, by its very nature, will invariably come across as a 'trick to be solved,' if the presentation fails (to quote Lee Earle) to create belief. e |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
What do you think is the percentage for those who only ever want to perform for friends and family, and have zero interest in anything else?
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eSamuels Inner circle 3085 Posts |
37%
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saysold1 Eternal Order Recovering Cafe addict with only 10795 Posts |
Great post - thanks Eric
Creator of The SvenPad Supreme(R) line of aerospace level quality, made in the USA utility props. https://svenpads.com/
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 17, 2016, eSamuels wrote: *** it...i had 86% written down...
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12945 Posts |
I had 37% crossed out then 35%
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
The real number is actually 68%
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jonnyboy Inner circle San Diego 1021 Posts |
Eric, while I heartily agree with your overall premise, I feel that there is a bit of a chicken and egg problem. Mentalism by its very nature, much more so than other related arts, typically requires audience participation for the demonstrations. (Of course, metal bending and certain other effects are performed without much participation). At some point, after all of the scripting, blocking, secret moves and practice run-throughs are done with family or other performers for feedback, one must perform before some live people, typically in a public setting. And more generally, when a mentalist starts to "go pro" or even "semi-pro", it requires an audience and people who will participate in the demonstrations. I'm sure that most of the demonstrations are fine tuned by the performer after trying it out on the public. One reads of constant fine tuning by the biggest names.
Therefore, I think it is only natural that mentalists try their hand at performing in front of public audiences, because that is an absolutely necessary element in their improvement process. They need real audience interaction and live feedback, in addition to mentored feedback. It has been mentioned before in other threads, how does one practice mentalism without an audience. To this I will put a corollary, how does one get mentored feedback, when one does not live close to top notch mentalists who must also be willing to give of their time (especially to someone who may end up competing on price). It doesn't do the mentalism community any good at all if mentoring is done by poor performers, since this will only create more poor performers. It would be helpful if a mentoring system were available, over Skype or Facetime, let's say. I know that Jheff and Bob did (may still be doing) something like this, where you could bring your routine for critiquing. However, not quite the same as someone watching your act, like a Ken Weber, and giving you feedback. And even if so, it would require the chicken (or maybe the egg?) of actually performing for the public at a relatively inexperienced stage in your career. One has to start somewhere. If you, or any of the other esteemed (and I use that term sincerely) workers on here have thoughts or advice on gaining critical performing experience without actual public performances, please share them. I hope you don't think I'm trying to be challenging, because I'm not. I greatly respect every single person who has posted in this thread. If there is some way to get this experience and improve one's mentalism skills without an audience or people, it would really be beneficial to know how so that more of the hobbyists and semi-pros (maybe even pros!) could improve their skills and acts out of the harsh glare of public shows. Thanks, John |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Y'know the chicken and the egg thing...
The answer is egg, as animals never change HOW they give birth even as they evolve... A hamster would never lay an egg... But as the creature who eventually evolved into a chicken gave birth, it would always be as an egg... Unless you are religious, in that case, the answer is chicken...
I've asked to be banned
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
On a recent episode of P&T's FU, one of the performers suffered with some of the worst blocking I've seen in a long time. They managed to upstage themselves several times and it felt like that they were aimlessly wandering around their props more than once. Even the miracles of TV editing couldn't fix the staging.
Aside from rehearsing one's routines with actual audiences, performers need to spend some time getting basic theatrical training so they learn how to "own" their space. I've seen far too many performers "run away" from the light, preferring to stand in the darkest parts of the stage where no one can see them. Even if you can't afford a professional director, you should be able to persuade a friend to sit where the audience sits and give you some basic feedback. Failing that, you can always set up a video camera and watch yourself with a critical eye. It's been my experience that magicians/mentalists are welcome at most Open Mic nights (and in fact, provide a welcome change of pace from the amateur comics working through material). You'll have a small, but appreciative crowd, who will let you know in no uncertain terms what is working and what isn't. If you live in (or near) any major city, there's likely an Open Night mic somewhere every night of the week. The only catch is you'll be limited in time, but as they get to know you (and if you make friends with the organizer), you can get extra time to do your stuff. If I got the opportunity to appear on TV, you could bet that I would be spending at least a week rehearsing my routine 24/7 with any audience I could find. Remember, once you appear on TV, your performance, for better or worse, will be on YouTube forever.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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Sensio Special user I promise I won't exceed 641 Posts |
My personal frustration has to do with those mentalism effects sold without any mentalism flair on these shows like AGT and FU where surely time is an issue and publicity is the main focus but still I hardly ever see any real mental feat taking place.
Everything seems to be or just pure luck or some sneaky trickery. People watch this in masses and I don't know whether or not it is hurting the pure value of our art. |
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Stunninger Inner circle 2819 Posts |
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On Sep 17, 2016, eSamuels wrote: The documentary Jerry Seinfeld: Comedian chronicles how Seinfeld develops a new stand up routine with brand new material. After his first performance with the new material he says, "I've got two bits. The rest is s**t." The film follows him over months of live performances, as he slowly and painstakingly refines the routine until he finally develops it to where he wants it. If I recall correctly, it takes Seinfeld about a year of performing the new routine in front of live audiences before he feels it's ready. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
That is s great documentary and really shows "the process" from conception to actually being performance-ready to go in his show.
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