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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
To further the education analogy (seriously, this time):
A Ph.D. level like Max Maven's should be required by anyone claiming to sell a seminal work (textbook) or ground-breaking research as well as for guiding graduate students. An M.A. level should be required for teaching undergraduates and doing doctoral research. A B.A. level should be required for working professionally. The analogy, however, is complicated by the facts that the Mystery Arts lack accreditation and that experience (flight-time in performance) is required apart from book knowledge alone.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
Shall we dance, arbiters of everything Mental and otherwise?
It seems (to me) that there a great number of false assumptions, chinese whisperers, and those who do not practice what they preach on this thread. If you had any concerns with a "creator" have you had a chat with them? Surely if you cared about the "art" as much as many of you purport to, you would try and contact them, no? Let's START there. |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2016, Alan Wheeler wrote: Magic and Mentalism can be this sterile, quasi-academic "thing" with categories, definitions, and labels if you'd like it to be. For some of us however, it is a means to an ends - which is EXACTLY how the "art" came to be in the first place... |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2016, Sudo Nimh wrote: yup, done that plenty of times under all kinds of conditions...very few have treated it as what it is, well meaning, straight forward, honest...the rest make excuses or just don't care... what are the great number of false assumptions you mention, Sudo?
I've asked to be banned
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2016, Sudo Nimh wrote: My posts are usually just silly speculations. I need to put that as a permanent signature, I think.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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tomd Special user 747 Posts |
To be fair, in my time viewing threads I have seen Iain challenge/question crediting and whether or not an effect should really be released a few times, directly to the creator.
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 3, 2016, tomd wrote: Maybe he was not referring to Iain.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
I am approaching this discussion with a sincere willingness for understanding and without any hostility Iain. There are just a few points that have been raised that I feel are not accurate or true of all "creators." I say this because it seems (I may be wrong)that some of these comments expressed here may in fact be aimed in my direction - I don't know. If anybody has had any issues with anything I've shared so far, nobody has certainly brought it to my attention directly.
Firstly, I don't consider myself to be a "creator." I haven't been putting things out there recently with the intention of being a creator at all, though I do consider myself to be an intelligent and creative individual. In fact, with the exception of "The Hidden Hand", all of the material I've shared so far has been things that I've developed over the years for actual use in my own performances. In addition, when I first start sharing these things, that's exactly what I was doing - sharing! And doing so freely. Now a comment was made above about a "notepad" and I cannot help but think that specific comment was definitely pointed in my direction. If it was, I think there are a few points that should be addressed there. First - The notepad is NOT the main method I describe in the manuscript. It is supplementary. The main method described is the use of envelopes. Second - When Jan Forster informed me that my idea was based on Paul Rosini's "Cards Across" method, I stated that I was no longer going to publish it. To which, the response was: "Why not? Your application IS entirely new in this context.." I credit the lineage to the best of my ability in the back of the manuscript. Earlier incarnations of the principle involved effects with playing cards, which is where my inspiration came from. On none of the earlier releases of the principle was a stink ever raised despite the fact that they were all using the same idea. So why with me? And especially after I was encouraged to release it by somebody who is respected within the community. If this comment was in fact directed at me, I feel that this is unfair. Consider these effects: "The Crusade" - Andrew Brown and Atlas Brookings. For the sake of secrecy, I won't reveal the method here. It uses a principle that is not even altered in it's mechanical use at all. The thing of value in this release is the presentation. I would also like to say that I think it is a wonderful item. Am I am complaining that it doesn't have a new handling of an old principle? No and neither is anybody else. Dan Baines and Ian Harvey also released "A Book At Midnight" which also uses the exact same idea, but with a different presentation and props. The thing of value in that release is the presentation and the fact that it doesn't use playing cards. Am I complaining about that one either? No. Nobody is. And yet, both of them make use of the same principle without any dramatic alterations to it. "Stegosaurus" - Phill Smith. Again, here is a concept that I've played with off and on for more than 20 years. It has been released by numerous others in various forms over the years - most of which are not credited at all in the back of the manuscript. There is a huge gap in the credits list. Phill's "addition" simply reduces the alphabet cards from 20 (and in some cases, 26) down to 10. Is that an improvement? Maybe. It's subjective. Did the market welcome it and enjoy it? Yes. Is it new? No - not by a long shot. "ESP Chips" - Astor. Makes use of a well-known domino principle. The difference - it uses ESP symbols, and rather than have a double-ended tile, uses both sides and they are stacked one atop the other as opposed to end-to-end. Dan Harlan makes use of the same idea in a routine with colored gloves. And a good number of others have also used it over the years in various forms without alteration other than in presentation or in props. Again - nobody is crying foul. Fact of the matter is, I could probably spend days writing up examples. Please understand that I am not disparaging any of the above gentleman's routines, but am using them as examples of the point that I am trying to illustrate. I am not a hard person to get along with or unreasonable and I welcome further discussion on this subject. In fact I have a great bit more to say on the subject, but feel that they are points that should be delivered in digestable-sized chunks rather than all at once. I hope that this discussion can continue in a positive and constructive way for everybody and... I apologize for the length of this post. |
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Dr Spektor Eternal Order Carcanis 10781 Posts |
Its interesting as the phenomenon they speak of here some of us use for mentalism effects where we use it as subtle forces and cues. Since most of us here are human, it is likely that sometimes it may occur to even the best of us. Great word for the phenomena too isn't it... Likely it can happen to those who actually do study a lot. Then there are those who create truly independently, but didn't know it existed because the source might be obscure. Then there are those who don't really research to the full extent they could... Then there are those who just steal consciously without regard.
"They are lean and athirst!!!!"
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
Ok. My bad.
I have been informed by a few others who have read this thread and have communications elsewhere. I see what this "pad" thing is all about now. Regardless, if in any way anybody ever has an issue with any of my releases please don't hesitate to contact me. |
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
Ironically, you coulda just asked! Ha! 😊
I've asked to be banned
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
Now I get to have to have a "why didn't I think think of that?" moment.
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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1533 Posts |
Welcome to my world.
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
Quote:
On Oct 4, 2016, Sudo Nimh wrote: Ooooorrrrrrr... This is just a brilliant teaching playlet which you have played out for the advancement of the art. |
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E.E. Inner circle Look mom, I have 1533 Posts |
If I ask how to switch 4 billets, and a guy tells me to use the flop move, and then five other guys tell me to "use a move where you... (describe the flop move here)" but they never refer to it as the flop move, because they didn't know that's what it's called, Is that a lack of mentalism education?
Professional mentalist and digital artist for mystery performers. check out my work at www.facebook.com/EverElizaldeArtStudio
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IAIN Eternal Order england 18807 Posts |
No.
I've asked to be banned
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Alan Wheeler Inner circle Posting since 2002 with 2038 Posts |
"This is the Central Scrutinizer.
It is my responsibility to enforce all the laws that haven't been passed yet. It is also my responsibility to alert each and every one of you to the potential consequences of various ordinary, everyday activities you might be performing..." "Cruel and inhuman punishments are being carefully described in tiny paragraphs, so they won't conflict with the Constitution. Which, itself, is being modified in order to accommodate... THE FUTURE!"
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
A BLENDED PATH Christian Reflections on Tarot Word Crimes Technology and Faith........Bad Religion |
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