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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » The Lean Back / Matrix Lean / Muscle Suspension / Invisible Chair (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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oweosc12
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Hi Guys,

I know this topic has been talked about before on the Café, but that was a while ago so I thought I'd bring it up again to see if there are any new suggestions/thoughts/ideas.

I have recently become fascinated with 'the invisible chair' and ultimately I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction to buy the gimmick (or instructions on how to build it.)

I do understand that there has been much debate over who created this trick, but I've noticed that recently many more magicians have been performing the lean back and therefore wondered if something had been released which I have missed. For example take a look at the following two videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsHJJ0KmoFE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nrWYCs2tTk

I also know that there are lots of knock offs of these tricks which are being sold at ridiculous prices.

However, if someone could give me some guidance on where to look to achieve a similar effect I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks!
Bill Hegbli
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I believe you should have revitalized the previous postings, no sense splitting up a topic that has all the same answers.

Have you been saving your money, just buy the Lean if you really want it, last I looked it was $550.00, is that ridiculous price, not sure.

As stated previously, they are available from China. Everything comes from China, so just place your order.

None of these effects cannot be done without proper strengthening of your total body muscles. Have you been working out with a trainer.

Here is were you can purchase the lean and Matrix prop combo, $2,500. There is a wholesale price of $729.00 plus postage which would be very expensive as well, but if you really want this, then it should be worth it to you. I don't know their qualifications for selling wholesale to individuals or the quantity requirements if any. You will have to check with them.

http://www.52magic.com/765_The-Lean---Ma......gic.html

Here is where you can buy The Lean in the U.S. for $650, there has been a change in price it seems.

http://www.malloymodernmagic.com/proddetail.php?prod=Lean

If you wait another few years, the price will only increase.

To my knowledge there is no plans, except the ones mentioned before for the lean by Michael Jackson at the patent office.

It would be foolish to attempt to make something of this nature yourself or even a welder and metal expert.

Well, there you have it, please post a video of you performing this, it would be great to see your dreams come true for yourself.
Peter Loughran
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I think someone would have to be absolutely crazy to buy that cheap knock off crap from China! Its all copied junk that doesn't work right and that's if you are lucky enough to get it at all. You'll also never seen your money back when you go to complain! Stay far, far away from 52 magic and the other China rip off sites.


P.
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Bill Hegbli
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Sorry to differ, but I and others have ordered from 52 magic and the items were delivered.

These are only sources I have found for these items, Peter, if you know who makes and sells them, please list, but what was said on the café, no one else is making them.
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Well you got your order, but it still doesn't change the fact that this website is selling Pirated, copied, and illegal knock off illusions and products!

They have stolen the ideas from so many magicians and creators and selling cheap inferior copies to those who are willing to put ethics aside in favor of saving a few bucks on cheaply made fake! They are stealing! Unfortunately China government doesn't seem to recognize or enforce copyright law, anything can be stolen and copied there.

With all due respect Bill, it's magicians like you who continue to buy and promote this crap that keeps these scum bags in business. Stop being apart of the problem, and don't buy from or promote these sites selling ripped off magic! Surely you know buying and supporting a website that does this is wrong in so many ways!

With regards to the lean, Doug Malloy is the only authorized dealer that I know of (He's the creator). The China store above stole his idea and is selling a fake without his permission.
The history with the other matrix illusion/invisible chair etc., is a bit more involved, but as far as I know it is still intellectual
property of other magicians (including Danny Cole) who have chose not to sell the illusion to other magicians as they wanted to keep the effect to exclusive to themselves (and that's their right). That's why it's not for sale anywhere else! But the China magic people have no problems ripping it off and making a cheap fake.

OMG Please do not buy from or support these Chinese knock off sites! All they do is hurt the magic industry in so many ways! As long as people continue to buy from and promote these thieves, the problem will continue.

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gimpy2
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First time I took a look at 52 magic, Unreal what they are doing. They are not only stealing creations but using the creators names,photos and demo clips as if its just a discounted prop from the creator.
tristanmagic
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Quote:
On Oct 18, 2016, Peter Loughran wrote:
Well you got your order, but it still doesn't change the fact that this website is selling Pirated, copied, and illegal knock off illusions and products!

They have stolen the ideas from so many magicians and creators and selling cheap inferior copies to those who are willing to put ethics aside in favor of saving a few bucks on cheaply made fake! They are stealing! Unfortunately China government doesn't seem to recognize or enforce copyright law, anything can be stolen and copied there.

With all due respect Bill, it's magicians like you who continue to buy and promote this crap that keeps these scum bags in business. Stop being apart of the problem, and don't buy from or promote these sites selling ripped off magic! Surely you know buying and supporting a website that does this is wrong in so many ways!

With regards to the lean, Doug Malloy is the only authorized dealer that I know of (He's the creator). The China store above stole his idea and is selling a fake without his permission.
The history with the other matrix illusion/invisible chair etc., is a bit more involved, but as far as I know it is still intellectual
property of other magicians (including Danny Cole) who have chose not to sell the illusion to other magicians as they wanted to keep the effect to exclusive to themselves (and that's their right). That's why it's not for sale anywhere else! But the China magic people have no problems ripping it off and making a cheap fake.

OMG Please do not buy from or support these Chinese knock off sites! All they do is hurt the magic industry in so many ways! As long as people continue to buy from and promote these thieves, the problem will continue.

P.


Well said Peter... apart from one important detail: Doug Malloy is not the creator of the Lean. (he's not even the first to put it on the market as people like Christopher bell use to make and sell them in the early '90) It's an old vaudville gag and you find lot's of info about it here on the Café....
Peter Loughran
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Thanks for the clarification. Cheers!
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Bill Hegbli
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Well, China is a communist country, and the U.S. is having them make just about everything. They give the plans and schematics and plans, bring machines from the U.S. to use in the their manufacturing process. You don't think they copy everything, they sure do. China is a very different culture, but we give them everything because we only have to pay 3 cents an hour for them to make anything. The is the way it is and if you don't like it, then write your congressman and see how far that will get you.

The U.S. is now financially in debt to them, because we made them a very rich county at the expense of America and Canada.

I use to work for a company that moved all their machines out of Canada over night and brought them to the U.S. Did not tell the employees at all, They went home on Friday, and came back on Monday to an empty plant. Then the company sent machines to Korea and the process to Mexico. Over 5 years they moved everything to Mexico. Because we have laws, they had to do more slowly and inform us.

Nothing is fair in business, but it all falls on the auto companies, as they require if you want to do business with them, every 6 months, they require that cost of product be reduces by at leas 5 percent. There are only so many 6%'s you can give, then it is take it to Mexico that only pays 5 cents an hour.

You can be shocked and appalled all you want, but in business there is no morals, if there was, our countries would not be where it is today.
gimpy2
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Bill,

I always enjoy reading your post but think you are off base here. Creators of magic props don't for the most part work anything like big manufacturing companies. So many great creations come from small cottage type shops that have no practical way to protect what they invent. Just because these small shops cant protect themselves dosent mean its ok to steal their ideas,images and demo clips. The art of magic survives because a large group of people agree on rules of conduct that preserve it. These rules are not laws or written contracts in most cases. These rules are not governed by courts but enforced by a community of folks who wish to preserve the art. You cant possibly think its in the interest of the future of magic to support companies who steal from the little guy just because they can get away with it.

Respectfully,

Gimpy
gothike
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Peter,

Malloy Leans is based on an old vadville-circus effect. The Magic Castle itself has a old black and white picture of a performance.

The only copyright of the effect are Michael Jacksons shoe design. Malloy has his own design based on a public domain effect.

The matrix effect was created by a performance artist Johan Lorbeer. The problem with that effect is everyone believes Danny Cole invented it.
Which creates drama and issues with misconceptions and origin.
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Peter Loughran
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Thanks Gothlike, Tristanmagic already explained that above, yeah I don't claim to know the history of every effect, far from it, it was so long ago that I first heard about the lean, I just remembered Doug's name being attached to it. As for the matrix, yes I know there is controversy with this illusion and it's origin, that's why I said above, it was a bit more involved.
But regardless of all that I wasn't trying to give Bill a history lesson, there are obvious fakes and copies of many many illusions and products on this site aside from those two effects (and previously some of my own products) and supporting and promoting this website is wrong!

Gimpy well said.

Bill the difference is that the major US automakers are choosing to take their plans, schematics, machinery in China to have stuff built there with cheap labor. They still have control and distribution of their cars. China magic is just stealing! I didn't give China magic my plans, machinery or authorization to build my effects. When a US car manufacturer has its factory operations in China, they are still selling the cars and making money. When China magic steals, the creators get nothing.

Another big problem is that they are using our pictures, names, demo video etc, fooling the customer into thinking the product is legit. I can't tell you how many times I have received emails from customers looking for returns or tech support on something I didn't even build! People would complain the product broke right away and thought I made it, when in fact it was a cheap China knock off. This can be very hurtful to ones business reputation.
However I am happy to report a friend of mine and his company waaxfighting for the right thing, and his company has successfully zapped a few products (mine included) from China magic and other rip off sites.

P.
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Bill Hegbli
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Yes, they are stealing, but maybe in their culture they don't see it as stealing. You or anyone cannot tell another culture how they should act. We are in a war now, in the Iran, Iraq, and other countries over there. It is a war about how they should believe, act, and how their culture acts. It is a different country and culture, nothing like the other side of the world. They are communist. They kill their own people when they protest, or say anything that the government does not agree with. Our beliefs and morals are very different than ours.

We all have to accept people as they are, our country is dealing with that right now across America. No matter what they do and how they act, you have to accept and love them. Idealistic theory.
Bill Hegbli
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Quote:
On Oct 20, 2016, gimpy2 wrote:
Bill,

I always enjoy reading your post but think you are off base here. Creators of magic props don't for the most part work anything like big manufacturing companies. So many great creations come from small cottage type shops that have no practical way to protect what they invent. Just because these small shops cant protect themselves dosent mean its ok to steal their ideas,images and demo clips. The art of magic survives because a large group of people agree on rules of conduct that preserve it. These rules are not laws or written contracts in most cases. These rules are not governed by courts but enforced by a community of folks who wish to preserve the art. You cant possibly think its in the interest of the future of magic to support companies who steal from the little guy just because they can get away with it.

Respectfully,

Gimpy



They use to honor each other, since the Internet growth, it has been thrown out the window. There use to be a Magic Dealers Association aka MDA, it has not been active since the Internet began. They steal everything now. Just no respect for another's property.

http://www.magicdealers.com/blog/the-mag......n-5.html
Peter Loughran
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Bill!
What's going on with you? Your reasons to rationalize this theft is getting ridiculous!
You clearly admit that you know they are stealing! So why in hell would you think it's ok to support these thieves by buying their stolen, pirated and knock off magic and directing others to buy from there?

Why would you support such a company and continue to promote their website to others?

Bill, with all due respect, I worry that young people starting magic will find this thread and see your writings, and believe it's ok to steal magic from others, And it's not ok Bill, it's so very wrong!

I can't sit here and listen to this garbage! Maybe others can, but I can't!
You keep back peddling, changing you reasons, and you have said nothing that justifies these scum bags from stealing from us, instead you continue to spew crap that suggests it's ok! Their culture? Really? This is your latest excuse and how you justify supporting a website that steals and profits from your peers? Really?

I can't believe you are still defending this blantant theft! I was hoping you would come to your senses, and realize that what you were supporting is so very wrong, but instead you continue to come up wth lame excuses why it's ok to steal!

I'm sorry Bill, that this subject hits home so much because of the damage these scum bags have done to my family and others over the years, and that's why I can't let this thread sit here with you promoting this crap for our younger generation of magicians to read!

I hate to say it, but it seems sometimes in life no matter how hard you try, with some subjects, you just can't fix stupid!

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Pete Biro
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We had several folks ask us (JOE PORPER) to repair or replace defective items. Fact is they were poorly made Chinese rip offs. Sales on some of our items tanked, due to the cheap rip offs. Smile Smile Smile
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Ihop
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I was just listening to The Magic Word" podcasts and they were discussing the knockoffs from China.
Many creators stopped developing new magic because of the theft from China.
It hurts all of us.
Ihor
Bill Hegbli
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Peter Loughran, my point is complaining will do no good at all. If you are really concerned start a Go Fund Me Page and do something about it. Take them to International Court. Sue them and win if you can. Telling people to not support them, will not do any good either. Those that want to buy will buy. This is a new century and you have to accept the new reality.

It is like telling people to stop buying gasoline for a day, will the do it, heck no. So accept it or do something about it.

I am telling you the reasons why they are successful at making copies. It is their country, and they are supplying to their people. If others want to by from them, that is an individuals choice, and it seems other are.

If the authorized people are not making and offering for sale for a product that has demand, someone will supply it. That is just the way it is.

Don't like it, then stop them legally and put them out of business.

That is just the way it is.
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Bill Hegbli,

I just don't think you get it! And you know what? I don't think you ever will.

Btw I am doing something about it, and I've successfully had my products zapped from that website!
But you know what else I'm doing, I'm going to stand up for what's right, and I will speak out against people like you who support these thieves every chance I get!
It's people like you Bill Higbli who are part of the problem! As long as there are unethical people like you willing to support them, they will keep stealing.
You are obviously going to keep supporting these thieves as you obviously have no regard for magic creators, Just remember when you do that you are disrespecting your fellow magicians, creators and the art of magic,
The magic community is small, and we can make a difference!
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Ihop
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Peter,
I agree with you wholeheartedly.
I would think that the majority of the magic community also agrees with you.
We can't control China's piracy problem.
The problem is the people that buy from them and then on top of that they recommend them to others.

I posted this a while back:
http://themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic......590801#0

I also suggested a consortium similar to the one the music industry has.
They prosecute and fine people that download music illegally.
This can be under the IBM, SAM, Magic Circle, etc. umbrella.
The problem is the copyright and trademark legal issues.
We would need a lawyer to advise the magic community whether this is feasible or not.
If this cannot be done legally, we can at least chastise the magicians that support these pirates, as you have done.
Or: Maintain a list of piracy supporters and dealers so the magic community knows.

Kudos to you and thank you for standing up for the right thing.
Ihor
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