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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Grand illusion » » The Lean Back / Matrix Lean / Muscle Suspension / Invisible Chair (10 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bill Hegbli
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Eternal Order
Fort Wayne, Indiana
22561 Posts

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Peter, I liken your response to all happens that as you say, nothing can be done about it. Punish the little guy, and let the "king Pin" continue. This is the same thinking and how the law deals with drugs selling, and the plastics manufacturers destroying the earth. Make the little guy pay. They put out the poison, and no one makes them clean it up, as with plastics. We have thousands of drug addicts and pushers in jail, but none of the cartel.

Don't close down the cigarette, oil, plastics, drugs, make the consumer stop buying them. How has that worked so far. Non-sense.

I am not promoting, but I will answer a question when asked. As you say, it is up to them to do as their conscience allows. Not me or you, or anyone else.

You took your products off your website, how is that working for you. Great way to sell merchandise. Ridiculous response to getting the word out.
Peter Loughran
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V.I.P.
Ontario, Canada
2683 Posts

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Lol are you on glue?
Your responses and comparisons are getting more silly every time. I'm not punishing the little guy! I am the little guy!!! The little guy who's getting ripped off by these big Chinese factories stealing and selling my work (and hundreds of other's work) without our permission!
I would never suggest anyone to buy from a company that sells rip offs! But we all know you will Bill, you've made that very clear and that you see nothing wrong with supporting these theives!

Oh and lol, I didn't take my products off my website...haha, no I had the copied fakes that they were selling taken off of THEIR site!
And it's been working out fantastic, thanks for asking, getting way less emails from unhappy people who had discovered they bought a cheap copied fake that they put my name and face on!

Thanks Ihop, I'm glad to read about your support, we have the same view!
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Zlwin Chew
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Elite user
Malaysian Magician with
437 Posts

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When a magician buys from China, they should already know that the price isn't right and that they might get a prop that does not function well. But they will already have in mind that they get what they pay for. So, really, it's up to the buyers if they want to buy from China or not. I really do not think that ANYONE in their right mind would buy a prop from 52magic and NOT consider that it is from China. Come on, if someone buys a prop from that website, they will have most certainly know that it IS from China. If so, they cannot say that they were ripped-off, because they chose to buy it.

Although I do not enjoy their ethics about copying unauthorised products, I would tell you that many of their "public domain" magic are of good quality. I have bought many of these from them. Now, before you start shooting your bullets at me, I would like to tell you that I support only authorised illusions and magic. I own more than 15 authorised illusions built by John Gaughan, Bill Smith, Wellington, Roy Shank, Thom Rubino, etc. I just want to get a point out that among the lousy props they make, they do produce some very good props, too.

So, if you are a magician and wants to play by the rule and yet save money, buy the "public domain" props from China such as... Snowstorm loads (they are very very cheap and beautifully made) or Silks, or appearing/vanishing canes (China produces some of the world's BEST canes, solid and durable.) Stay away from buying an unauthorised John Taylor's Suspended Animation illusion or Daniel Summers' Instant Babe.

Just my two cents.
Peter Loughran
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V.I.P.
Ontario, Canada
2683 Posts

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Actually Zlwin, I think you might be surprised at the number of people that buy from this website that think they are getting a legitimate product. And that's really the other major problem that these theives create.

I can tell you from experience by the sheer number of complaints I get and have gotten, from people who bought copies from this site thinking they bought one of my original products. The China magic shop used my pictures, photocopied my instructions, used my demo video, my name etc. without my permission to sell their cheap imitations., I think there is a huge number of folks who are tricked into thinking they are buying a genuine product, only to discover they have been sold a cheap fake. I've had so many people email me over the years telling me how upset they were in being duped. That's not a problem? That's not someone getting ripped off? I'm quite certain both the buyer and I got ripped off.

There are many more who think what they received is an authorized version, but the product is really a cheaply made fake, and they do not know it's a fake, only to think it's the originator's fault for the poor craftsmanship. So now the reputation of the real inventor/manufacturer suffers. These people not only steal but they create bad reputations to those who have no idea they bought a fake.

You see they don't just sell through China magic, they sell through all the major bidding sites, and Amazon etc. where their selling location is often disguised or simply not noticed by the purchaser because most people believe places like eBay and Amazon only sell legitimate products. Sadly fakes seep through the cracks all the time. Supporting a website that takes advantage of people on both sides, is simply wrong in my eyes. I will continue to speak out against the fraud.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
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Skeleton
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Loyal user
Germany
274 Posts

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Quote:
On Oct 24, 2016, Ihop wrote:
I also suggested a consortium similar to the one the music industry has.
They prosecute and fine people that download music illegally.


Well, in my view this is comparing apples to oranges: OK, the music-industry also get's stolen by the illegal downloads and don't get me wrong, I am not defending theft here.
But on the other hand I can't stand the whining of this industry any more, when on the other hand they had ripped off the customers for decades! Producing a CD for $ 2 and selling it for almost $ 20,-- - hello???
So I can't blame people for trying to find ways to get their music cheaper - unfortunately it went via the illegal way.

And let's face it, event though the magic-industry is much smaller (and therefore the manufacturers have to charge higher prices), also here some (a lot?) of the stuff offered is way overpriced...
To infinity, and beyond!
Ihop
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Inner circle
Glen Spey, NY
1576 Posts

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Quote:
On Oct 30, 2016, Skeleton wrote:
Quote:
On Oct 24, 2016, Ihop wrote:
I also suggested a consortium similar to the one the music industry has.
They prosecute and fine people that download music illegally.


Well, in my view this is comparing apples to oranges: OK, the music-industry also get's stolen by the illegal downloads and don't get me wrong, I am not defending theft here.
But on the other hand I can't stand the whining of this industry any more, when on the other hand they had ripped off the customers for decades! Producing a CD for $ 2 and selling it for almost $ 20,-- - hello???
So I can't blame people for trying to find ways to get their music cheaper - unfortunately it went via the illegal way.

And let's face it, event though the magic-industry is much smaller (and therefore the manufacturers have to charge higher prices), also here some (a lot?) of the stuff offered is way overpriced...


Well, it sounds to me like you are justifying theft.
Even though you say you are not..
Many things are overpriced: cars, ties, chairs, pocketbooks, etc., etc., etc.
Why not just steal it because you feel it's overpriced.? (Sarcasm)
I would love to own a Tesla but I can't afford it. So according to you, it's justified to steal it. Because its overpriced.
Musicians have to pay a lot of money to get their music published. Sometimes entire orchestras are used, mass duplication, graphics, manager, marketing, etc.
On top of that that want to make a profit. For every musician that marks money there are thousands that didn't make it. They are taking a chance.
If people feel it's overpriced, you have the option of not buying it.
It's a question of morals.
It seems nowadays that stealing is justified.
I don't understand your comment "apples and oranges". Stealing is stealing. Whether it's music or magic or shoplifting.
The only problem I see in enforcing magic theft is the copyright issue.
But if we sit down and discuss this in a positive constructive manner, perhaps we can find a solution.
Justifying theft is not constructive.
Ihor
Skeleton
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Loyal user
Germany
274 Posts

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No, what I said was that I can't blame people for trying to find a cheaper way - which the legal downloading of music is! And true, I have the option of not buying it, but I also have the option trying to find a cheaper way!

And as I do know a lot of people in the music-business, I do know that even if there are sometimes high production-costs, the selling-price for the end-product (vinyl or cd) could have been at least 70% if not 50% of what they actually charged and are still charging.

Like I also said - in my view it is comparing apples to oranges, therefore it does not necessarily have to be your view!
To infinity, and beyond!
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