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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Chop Cup Question (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

abbeylane
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I've just started learning the Chop Cup routine.

When I want the ball is appear under the cup, you can hear the ball hit the table.

No matter what surface I use, the ball announces it's arrival.

Are all Chop Cup balls this vocal? Are the more expensive balls silent?
Doug Trouten
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This would be a great question for the folks who read the "Ever so Sleightly" forum, since chop cups are one of the topics covered there.
It's still magic even if you know how it's done.
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Tom Fenton
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What are the balls made from and do they have a covering?
Do they make a noise on a soft surface?

I have had this at times and the noise is minimal.
When it first happened I thought it was so loud but I found that in performing it went unnoticed because of ambient noise.
Also, I could hear it because I was expecting it, I never had anyone pull me up on it or even mention it.

The balls I use are mostly from RNT II and a couple from Colin Rose and Brett Sherwood.
When the performing surface is hard, wood or glass for example, there is a slight noise.
When I work on a soft surface there is no discernable noise.

If you find you cannot get rid of the noise perhaps you could use your voice to cover the sound.

I hope this helps a little.

Keep on with the chop cup, it is a great trick and one that is just so enjoyable to perform.

Tom
"But there isn't a door"
abbeylane
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Thanks Tom.
The balls are soft covered. I've tried all kinds of surface.
Do expensive balls talk less?
Maybe me talking more is the answer. Lol
BeThePlunk
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Most performers set the cup down firmly to dislodge the ball. The sound of the cup covers the sound of the ball pretty well. I've been looking for sponge chop ball without luck. I plan to look for a way to make my own.
plink
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Often a crumpled bill is used which involves an easy switch. The real/signed bill can be loaded into a lemon. Take a look at Craig Petty's 'Chopped'.
Tom Fenton
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I don't think that expensive balls talk less.
They are better made, things like the crotchet covering is better.

If you get the RNT II balls, they are adjustable so you don't have to "bang" the cup down.

Perhaps you could move the cup around a bit when you dislodge the ball.
The "scraping" noise may be a cover.

If I am honest, I don't think that noise, unless it is loud, is really a problem.

You could always say something like, "If you listen closely you can hear exactly when the magic happens."
"But there isn't a door"
whiteoakcanyon
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A couple quick thoughts. The spectator, unlike yourself, will not be listening for the ball to make contact with the mat or table. The sound comes so close to the sound of the cup rim on the surface they may not be able to distinguish between the two. As you practice more your "touch" will continue to improve so the noise will naturally lessen. You may want to try to adjust how the cup contacts the surface. If one side of the cup rim hits initially as opposed to striking the entire rim on the suface simotaneously, the ball may come free with less force. Finally, you can develop your scripting to allow your patter to mask any sound of the ball's contact with the surface. In short, I think you will find that time will naturally resolve this issue. I hope one of the ideas above will be helpful.

Mark
Coolmanclyde
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Whiteoak, you nailed it on the head, great advice that I am glad to have stumbled upon for my chop cup practice.

I also wasn't aware of the ajustable balls at RNT going to look into those.
danaruns
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You know, unless you have some peculiar situation that other people don't, I think it's pretty much a complete non-issue, especially if you are performing with a mat or soft table surface. I can't think of anyone who has had a problem with this. While there are issues in magic that people have to grapple with, and work-arounds are developed and communicated among magicians, this simply isn't one of them.

Abbeylane, you say you've just started to learn chop cup. Does that mean you've never performed a chop cup routine? It seems to me that when you do start performing it, you'll very quickly discover that the ball talking simply isn't a problem. But I do have to say that when I perform chop cup routines I never hear the ball, and in fact have to be pretty careful to use just the right amount of force -- enough to do the deed, but not enough to return the ball to pre-move status, if that makes sense -- and more than once I have lifted the cup only to discover that the ball wasn't where I intended it to be, which was a surprise because I could not hear it.

So, if you're really hearing it enough to be concerned, then perhaps you have an equipment/mat problem.
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DavidJComedy
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I think this is more of an issue of "don't run if you're not being chased". It's unlikely that the ball talks if hitting a close up mat. My issue with a new cup I just bought is more associated with the strength at which I have to put the cup down to produce the desired effect. Maybe with more use it will be better.
David
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disneywld
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I do two different chop cup routines. The old standard and one that Doug Henning taught me. You can view his routine on one of his TV specials. If you watch it, you can do it easily. For my standard routine I use a closeup mat, for the Henning routine I use the cloth bag that houses my paraphernalia. I've never had an issue with the ball telegraphing the sound.
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Danno83
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Not sure this is the place to post this, so apologies for that. But as a beginner to the chop cup, do you do this as one routine or do you do some kind of magic with the ball(s) before you being out the chop cup itself. I am just trying to put 3 Sets together with 3 tricks and in one sense it feels that the chop cup is just one set in itself. Any help or suggestions appreciated
danaruns
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Chop cup can actually be a very rich routine all by itself. I do a variation of Larry Jennings' chop cup routine, and it goes through some retention vanishes and appearances with balls (like the cups and balls material), the standard "under the cup or in my pocket," the ball through the silk, and multiple big loads at the end. So, you can probably incorporate chop cup throughout your set if that appeals to you. Or you can use the props for other effects before and after doing your chop cup routine.

Personally, I would stay away from doing routines with the balls before your chop cup routine, simply because of the optics. Chop cup is supposed to use only one ball, so revealing more than one before doing your chop cup routine takes away from the magic of it. The exception might be if you are only revealing one ball in your pre-chop cup magic. But I'd stay away from things like "two in the hand, one in the pocket," or some such. Doing a series of retention vanishes with a single ball would be fine, though.

But why feel the need to use any of the chop cup props? What's wrong with preceding your chop cup routine with cards, coins, ropes or what have you?
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
Danno83
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Quote:

But why feel the need to use any of the chop cup props? What's wrong with preceding your chop cup routine with cards, coins, ropes or what have you?


I agree with you. The chop cup for me is a very new item - infact I have been interested in magic for about 15 years and had a trick here and a trick there but never really routined anything. Now in the last 6 months I'm getting really serious into wanting to do some walk around stuff so got myself a mini chop cup to start with. So that being said I am trying to find a way to put it within a set.

I'm working on the principle of 3 sets with 3 tricks each. I feel myself that the chop cup itself is one set and I don't need another 2 tricks within that set as it has a killer ending anyway. However I keep hearing your first trick needs to be vital and quick... so for example.

Set 1 for table one
1. NFW by gary Freed
2. 2 card monte (in the hands - forgot it's name, but acespecially switch places)
3. Ambitious card

SET 2 for table two
1. Chop cup routine

SET 3 for table three
1. Coin across
2. Okito box
3. Card magic of some kind


OK. Very rough indeed, but would it be OK to walk up to table two and present the chop cup routine on the premace it's not quick and super visual at the beginning (although a has vanishes and appearences - which I guess is quick and visual). Basically would you use a chop cup as an opener for table two? Or it could be a closer for table two?

I personally agree with you I wouldn't want to do anything with the props before doing the chop cup, I think it devalues the strength of the magic that will take place and weaken the overall magic for the spectators.

I'm new to this routining thing but it excites me as I want my magic to flow.
ssucahyo
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@Abbey nothing to worry.
Trust me if they don't hear it.
This is the same case with your thumbtip. Many beginner afraid if the audience will spot it as they think their thumb tip doesn't looks like a thumb at all. Lol
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Mad Jake
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All the voices in my head helped me make
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I just pulled out 3 of my chop cups. a Ken Brooke Tall in copper, a study in stainless steel and a full size Don Alan in copper, all being heavy cups. I use Apollo closeup mats. The reason for heavy cups is they will make
noice when you sent them down hard. The balls I use are 1 1/4" wood core balls with crochet around them. I tried all 3 cups on the closeup mat. Setting down hard made a loud thud. Never heard the ball the mat.

I adjusted the balls so they would drop with setting the cup down without any force or thuds from them. All 3 cups, on the mat, not sound. I tried it on a hardwood dining table, the cup covered the noise as it hit the table,
even when I didn't use any real force setting the cups down. The ball can't make any noise until the cup hits the mat or working surface..

So a few questions for you what type of chop cup are you using? Copper? Aluminum? How thick is your closeup mat? Don Alan, this man used to go through some chop cups with the way he would slam
them down. The only thing the spectators would hear is the slamming of the cup.

All the questions I'm asking play a part in noise issue.

Mad Jake Sr.
For quality Paul Fox Cups spun on Danny Dew's Paul Fox tooling visit us at www.airshipmagic.com
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