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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Difference in cups (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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jakeg
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Is there any real difference, besides aesthetic, between performing with a great designer set of cups and an inexpensive set? I have a vintage set of Abbott cups, looks nice and I like them. But, I can't get my nose out of the C&B Museum, RnT2, Sherwood, and other sights. I think that I'm suffering from C.A.S. (cup acquisition syndrome). I know all the reasons why I don't need them, but ......
Matthew Crabtree
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Well there is the size that the final load can be. There is the size of the balls you can use in the routine things like that.
Bill Hegbli
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You answered your own question, being you know all the reasons why you don't need a Cadillac over a Subaru. They all do the same thing, even offer the same features. Why do people want a car that cost hundred thousand dollars over twenty thousand dollars. Simple pride in ownership.

All the cups do the same thing, the real question is what can you afford. The old saying is, if you have to ask the price, then you can't afford it.

Here is a good set of aluminum cups made by the defunct company Morrissey Magic. The are designed after the great L. Ireland, these are large cups and on sale for only $32.00, what a deal.

http://www.magicinc.net/IrelandCupsAluminum.aspx

There use to be a wooden set of cups that ended with a solid cup with no opening. There was also a set of cups that ended with the cups multiplying.

That is the only reason to buy different cups, if they can enhance your routine. If you don't perform with them, just use you coffee cups and mugs in the kitchen cupboard like Patrick Page does.

But you already have a set of Abbott's so why bother, I would suggest you concentrate on creating a fantastic routine. Other wise you will have 2 sets of cups and no routine.
jakeg
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Bill, there is no question that you are 100% correct in your evaluations. I've told myself the same thing many times. Then I start thinking: I buy a set of fine cups. They cost $250 - $300. If I ever sell them, I'll maybe lose, at most, $100. I spend more time with the cups than I do when we go out with friends for dinner. The cost is about the same.
If I buy a primo used set and decide to sell them, I'd lose even less, if anything.
As you can probably tell, I'm delusional. I'm going to hold off anyhow, and maybe the desire will go away.
I'm going to go practice.
BeThePlunk
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From my limited experience, the advice so far (and your own inner voice) are spot on. I have found that price difference will (often) give you larger final loads, nicer metals, better heft in your hand, and perhaps the name of a famous pro in the design. After that it's all about skill the design of your routine.
Slappy
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I, personally believe the fancier cups cry FOUL. The just look like fancy cups that do the work for you. Which is the reason so much time has been spent designing cups that look more utilitarian, like tea cups and coffee cups. Remember Dai would use paper/plastic cups and wrap them up in paper. Then use a balled up dollar bill to stun people. Don't get me wrong, as a magician I think they are beautiful to play with and own. Even perform with on special occasions.
"Help, I've got a silver ball stuck on my thumb"
Andy Young
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I have a brass set that I let get tarnished. They don't look great but I tell the kids that they were found in the dirt. I have more to the story. Point is use what your character or story would. Let that be your guide.
TheAmbitiousCard
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Here are some items off the top of my head that make a difference in how cups handle and could make a difference in whether or not you'd pick them
(not aesthetically related)

Weight
Height
Saddle depth
Saddle edge shape
Saddle size
Bead height
Bead separation
Ease of tipping cup back with a wand
Ease of rolling cup back 360 degrees, 270 degrees
Cup jamming issue
Attic space
Cup Diameter at mouth
Wobble factor when stacked
Metal thickness
Durability
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jakeg
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Hey Frank ... I was wondering what the practical difference is between a fine handcrafted set and a cheaper set.
I own a 50+ year old set of Abbott classic cups. I really like my cups, but I can't keep my mind off getting another set from one of higher end artisans. I just can't find a good reason, let alone the money. So,
The question is: beside the fact that I want them, is there any real reason for me to put the money out? (Hey, maybe I can borrow your Sherman's for a few years. 😀)
Jeff Haas
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I have a set of those Ireland cups, they look great - but they are so lightweight that they almost tip over by themselves. It makes some moves harder, and you end up having to be careful of not bumping anything. A heavier set of cups has more "heft" as mentioned above, and make everything a bit easier for you to do. When you set a cup down, it doesn't fall over accidentally. Also heavier balls help, the little cork ones with crocheted covers get away easily. Balls with a bit more heft make some moves similar to moves with a coin.

Remember that Vernon also had a very fancy set of silver engraved cups he used, there's a clip of him doing his routine on YouTube.
jakeg
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Quote:
On Nov 3, 2016, Jeff Haas wrote:
I have a set of those Ireland cups, they look great - but they are so lightweight that they almost tip over by themselves. It makes some moves harder, and you end up having to be careful of not bumping anything. A heavier set of cups has more "heft" as mentioned above, and make everything a bit easier for you to do. When you set a cup down, it doesn't fall over accidentally. Also heavier balls help, the little cork ones with crocheted covers get away easily. Balls with a bit more heft make some moves similar to moves with a coin.

Remember that Vernon also had a very fancy set of silver engraved cups he used, there's a clip of him doing his routine on YouTube.

The cup that I have, while they aren't hefty aren't that light. In fact, I had them at a meeting, and there were remarks about their weight. I haven't used them outdoors. (I did a mental act since the early '60s. Now that I retired, I have the time, and desire to learn some other magic. Cups were 1st on the list. I'm really enjoying them.n
ZachDavenport
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The cups ultimately don't matter. If you want to get some fancy ones, treat yourself, but there isn't really a reason to do it other than wanting to.
Reality is a real killjoy.
jakeg
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Quote:
On Nov 3, 2016, ZachDavenport wrote:
The cups ultimately don't matter. If you want to get some fancy ones, treat yourself, but there isn't really a reason to do it other than wanting to.

That's what I keep telling myself. It's not about the cups anyway. It's all about the balls. I guess that I'll wait this one out.
TheAmbitiousCard
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Quote:
On Nov 3, 2016, jakeg wrote:
Hey Frank ... I was wondering what the practical difference is between a fine handcrafted set and a cheaper set.
I own a 50+ year old set of Abbott classic cups. I really like my cups, but I can't keep my mind off getting another set from one of higher end artisans. I just can't find a good reason, let alone the money. So,
The question is: beside the fact that I want them, is there any real reason for me to put the money out? (Hey, maybe I can borrow your Sherman's for a few years. 😀)


If you're happy with the way they handle, there's no real reason other than keeping you from wondering all the time.
But even so, after you buy set 2, you'll be wondering about set 3.

Sometimes it's just fun to keep swapping them out and try new sets.

I don't collect cups (or anything really) but I've owned several sets over the years:
Gazzo
Animal
Babe
Golf
Johnson Products
Riser mini
Phoenix originals
Cellini
RntII Foxy 2.5
JES Squattty
Sherwood silver/gold engraved
Sherwood copper smooth
Some thin crap set
Another thin crap set
A small wooden set

Aside from the thin crap sets, and the small wooden set, they were all fun to own and most of them were high quality.
I settled on Sherwood smooth coppers as my goto set as it seemed to be the best all-around set of them all.
I keep one thin crap set to practice with and just keep it handy around the house.
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jakeg
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Thanks to a very old thread on cleaning cups, I was ultimately able to pretty positively identify the set I have. They are P&L cups. I've been practicing with them just about every day, and the more I use them, the better I like them.
Mobius303
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P&L cups are fun cups.
I think if you try out another set before you buy them if possible, you will have a better idea of you really want or need another set.
If you are happy with the set you have then keep on working with it and do not worry about getting more or another set.
Tom G
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I used to have a sizeable collection, but thinned it down over the years. I do like the PF design. Nothing you haven't heard, but decide on what you want for a final load. Also, will you want 3 balls to nest on top of one cup? Weight? Style? Everything will all add into what you want for a selection.
DaveGripenwaldt
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Hey, Jake,

Cup sets (and gaffed wallets) are the crack cocaine of magic. You are teetering on the edge. Be forwarned...

:-)
jakeg
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On Nov 16, 2016, DaveGripenwaldt wrote:
Hey, Jake,

Cup sets (and gaffed wallets) are the crack cocaine of magic. You are teetering on the edge. Be forwarned...

:-)

I know what you mean. I used to be addicted to the hokey - pokey. Then I turned myself around
Chessmann
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Quote:
On Oct 25, 2016, Slappy wrote:
I, personally believe the fancier cups cry FOUL. The just look like fancy cups that do the work for you. Which is the reason so much time has been spent designing cups that look more utilitarian, like tea cups and coffee cups. Remember Dai would use paper/plastic cups and wrap them up in paper. Then use a balled up dollar bill to stun people. Don't get me wrong, as a magician I think they are beautiful to play with and own. Even perform with on special occasions.


I don't think they cry foul to audiences, though. Vernon also used a beautiful, engraved set of silver cups to perform with, and used them on nationally televised shows. Brett Sherwood uses his own cups to perform with. I don't think they would have used them regularly if they felt their appearance lessened the 'magicalness' of their performances in the eyes of their audiences.
My ex-cat was named "Muffin". "Vomit" would be a better name for her. AKA "The Evil Ball of Fur".
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