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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Fellowship of Christian Magicians! » » Are Catholic Christians welcome in FCM? (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Steve Varro
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In answer to the question "Are Catholic Christians welcome in the FCM" As the international president, and a member for over 40 years. I would answer that with a resounding YES!

Before I go into more of an explanation, allow me to ask; Would I be allowed to be a member of the Catholic Magicians Guild, or the Morman Magicians Guild, or the Jewish Magicians Guild? If not, it would not be an effort by them to keep ME out, but in a way the result is the same. I also can not join the Miss American Beauty Pagent either. Is that Male Bashing? Of course not. Every organization has rules and requirements. To be a Boy Scout I must be a boy, of a certain age. That is not a statement pointing against girls or younger boys. The just have rules and requirements. I've made choices in my life that will exclude me from being members of various groups, but that is not the fault of the organizations. When it comes to my denominational faith, I made my choices and I will stand up for them. If joining an organization, even the FCM, is more important than my denominational choice, then maybe I need to rethink my beliefs.

The FCM does not try to be the policemen of the magic world. Our statement of faith is not written in opposition to any organization or group. What we have said is that if you can sign our Statement of Faith you can become a member. If you are a Catholic and do not feel comfortable signing the Statement of Faith, we respect that and want you to know that you are still welcome to attend our conventions as a non member. If, as a Catholic you have no trouble signing the Statement of Faith, we welcome you as a member with opened arms. One of my favorite members from the 70s and 80s was Sister Cabrini, a Catholic Nun. If you ask other members from back then, I assure you they would all have wonderful things to say about her.

If you do not feel that you and the FCM, or any other organization, are in agreement, then why on earth would you even want to be a member of such a group? I hope to see you at our international convention in Indianapolis this June. God Bless you all.
STILL In HIS service

Steve Varro

International President of FCM

Owner/Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co.
jamiedoyle
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Great insight Steve!

Sister Cabrini came to numerous events and outreaches when I was kid growing up in Minnesota.
Jamie Doyle

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Steve Varro
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I've been thinking about all the comments here and I would like to respectfully ask; What Word of God, other than the Bible, is infallible? or let me ask it another what; What are some other Words of God?

Thank you.
STILL In HIS service

Steve Varro

International President of FCM

Owner/Dock Haley Gospel Magic Co.
Terry Holley
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Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, Steve Varro wrote:
I've been thinking about all the comments here and I would like to respectfully ask; What Word of God, other than the Bible, is infallible? or let me ask it another what; What are some other Words of God?

Thank you.

Basically the same question I asked. I'm going to pose the question to various online Catholic sites to see how they respond. I really want to know.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
BCE
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On Mar 7, 2017, Steve Varro wrote:
I've been thinking about all the comments here and I would like to respectfully ask; What Word of God, other than the Bible, is infallible? or let me ask it another what; What are some other Words of God?

Thank you.


What Word of God, other than the Bible, is infallible? Easy answer: All the oral teachings and tradition (both little-"t" tradition and big-"T" Tradition) that preceded the invention of the printing press -- because how would Christian have known the Word of God before the printing press made Bibles available? The FCM Statement of Faith essentially asks Catholic Christians to approve the "sola scriptura" (Bible only) view of faith. Anything that looks like sola scripura, feels like sola scriptura...is problematic for Catholic Christians.

"And we also thank God . . . that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God." (1 Thess. 2:13)
Terry Holley
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On Mar 11, 2017, BCE wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 7, 2017, Steve Varro wrote:
I've been thinking about all the comments here and I would like to respectfully ask; What Word of God, other than the Bible, is infallible? or let me ask it another what; What are some other Words of God?

Thank you.


What Word of God, other than the Bible, is infallible? Easy answer: All the oral teachings and tradition (both little-"t" tradition and big-"T" Tradition) that preceded the invention of the printing press -- because how would Christian have known the Word of God before the printing press made Bibles available? The FCM Statement of Faith essentially asks Catholic Christians to approve the "sola scriptura" (Bible only) view of faith. Anything that looks like sola scripura, feels like sola scriptura...is problematic for Catholic Christians.

"And we also thank God . . . that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men but as what it really is, the word of God." (1 Thess. 2:13)


And what exactly are those oral teachings and tradition that are infallible and inspired outside of the Bible? I surmise that they are now written down and available to read. I can't seem to find anything on this and no one is directing me to a source to read them. I'm not sure it's as easy as you state.
Co-author with illusionist Andre' Kole of "Astrology and Psychic Phenomena."
ChrisMcHugh
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I'm a little confused by this topic. As a Catholic, who has work in Youth Ministry for eleven years, I see no issue here. We believe the Scripture to be the word of God. Even the quote from the Catechism supports this.

108. Still, the Christian faith is not a "religion of the book." Christianity is the religion of the "Word" of God, a word which is "not a written and mute word, but the Word is incarnate and living". If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures."

I understand this to say that we must live the scripture. The Catholic Church does not teach Papal Infallibility to be the word of God; Although I will be open to correction, my understanding is that Infallibility merely means that if Church doctrine is questioned, the Pope has the final say in the interpretation?

Either way I think Steve Varro has settled this - Catholics are welcome, and you need to make the personal choice if you are comfortable with it.

Chris Smile
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Did you guys know that for a thousand years, there was only one church? It was in the 11th century that there was a schism, and the Catholics split from what was the original church. Ya'll should look into Orthodox Christianity! It's the unbroken tradition of the original church since the time of Christ.
John Cowne
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This is very hard. I know the last post was last year - has anything been resolved? I would have thought the key word is Christian, and not Protestant, Catholic, Orthodox,...or the various sub-branches in each of these identities. I’m an Anglican from Sydney, and that is enough for a lot of Anglicans in many other parts of Australia to be suspicious of me ... and it happens to be about our understanding of Scripture (our basic guideline is 2 Timothy 3:16-17). But I go to Scripture classes in public schools that also have Roman Catholic teachers who I see as friends who also love Jesus. I look at the statement of faith here, and have to agree with it. I don’t think my Roman Catholic friends would have problems, either....I’ll ask them. Or the Roman Catholics here, what would happen if you shared the statement of faith at your church, to see what kind of response you get? I’m trying to work out, if the statement of faith extended the section on Scripture to include a Roman Catholic doctrinal belief, would that mean the FCM automatically excludes many/most Protestants from being members? Perhaps there is a place in the magic brotherhood to have two/three clear organisations that genuinely follow their beliefs, but still have an affiliation of love based on Jesus. Please forgive the way I seem to jump from one idea to the next; just trying to find a way forward so we can all serve the Lord Jesus with clear consciences.
Russo
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I don't remember where in the Bible it says (Corinthians ?) but if YOU believe in God/Jesus and your Brother believes also - and you both have different ideas on how to Believe/Worship- its Wrong to get each other to believe in the different/your, ways - Just that YOU (both) believe - If one wont eat meat and you can, don't tell him he's wrong, just go along. If one goes to worship on a Saturday and the other goes on a Sunday - its wrong to say the other is wrong. If you BELIEVE that's ALL THAT MATTERS. There's too much put on Formal Ceremonies ,not enough on whats in you Heart. Blessings to ALL>
Slim King
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On Nov 26, 2019, Russo wrote:
I don't remember where in the Bible it says (Corinthians ?) but if YOU believe in God/Jesus and your Brother believes also - and you both have different ideas on how to Believe/Worship- its Wrong to get each other to believe in the different/your, ways - Just that YOU (both) believe - If one wont eat meat and you can, don't tell him he's wrong, just go along. If one goes to worship on a Saturday and the other goes on a Sunday - its wrong to say the other is wrong. If you BELIEVE that's ALL THAT MATTERS. There's too much put on Formal Ceremonies ,not enough on whats in you Heart. Blessings to ALL>

I agree!!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
John Cowne
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On Nov 26, 2019, Russo wrote:
I don't remember where in the Bible it says (Corinthians ?) but if YOU believe in God/Jesus and your Brother believes also - and you both have different ideas on how to Believe/Worship- its Wrong to get each other to believe in the different/your, ways - Just that YOU (both) believe - If one wont eat meat and you can, don't tell him he's wrong, just go along. If one goes to worship on a Saturday and the other goes on a Sunday - its wrong to say the other is wrong. If you BELIEVE that's ALL THAT MATTERS. There's too much put on Formal Ceremonies ,not enough on whats in you Heart. Blessings to ALL>
I understand what you're saying. But what if the issue is not about 'Formal Ceremonies' but about what we accept as God's only inerrant written Word? I thought that was the issue the first poster presented was about where we hear God's Word clearly, and if two 'sources' present different answers to where salvation is found. Isn't that significant to talk about? That doesn't sound like a 'I don't care what you eat" or "I go to church on Saturday/Sunday" issue, does it? Help me here, I'm trying to work out what the real issue is here.
Russo
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I thought it was about which group/belief is right - I felt NO one group, is the only one right. As long as YOU, Believe the LORD is your Savior-(not what/where, you read it). If you saw a sign that said 'Slow Down' - next sign said "Don't go fast" - which one is completely right (even Books in the Bible say the same thing differently, your Hearts Holy Spirit will set it straight). Religion and Politics is a hard discussion. Dueling is not a pleasure,either. You're RIGHT-I'm RIGHT (?) -we're BOTH IN THE LIGHT. "Bless Us All", said Tiny Tim.
John Cowne
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On Jan 20, 2020, Russo wrote:
I thought it was about which group/belief is right - I felt NO one group, is the only one right. As long as YOU, Believe the LORD is your Savior-(not what/where, you read it). If you saw a sign that said 'Slow Down' - next sign said "Don't go fast" - which one is completely right (even Books in the Bible say the same thing differently, your Hearts Holy Spirit will set it straight). Religion and Politics is a hard discussion. Dueling is not a pleasure,either. You're RIGHT-I'm RIGHT (?) -we're BOTH IN THE LIGHT. "Bless Us All", said Tiny Tim.
I think I generally agree with you Russo. I’m certain that any two ‘groups’ will get some things right that the other doesn’t and vice-versa. I hate it when parents fight, and even when their kids fight. But what do we do about the statement of faith? That was the original issue. I’m still unsure about the way forward for our brothers and sisters in Christ who couldn’t sign it with a clear conscience. Should the association drop it altogether or radically change it? I know I could sign it in good conscience as it is. If it changes, then everything changes - please, no platitudes; help my dilemna!
Russo
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Sorry I really don't know about the FCM -just stumbled on it's forum- tried to read all the comments from the beginning - as I don't know the FCM STATEMENT ,I really don't know. Only that what you and the Lord in your HEART feel, is what you should trust, not some GROUPS STATEMENT, it's just a Club,signing anything(if it's not against our Lord) shouldn't influence any feeling between you and OUR LORD. Don't sign anything if you don't want to - is the CLUB more important? Not to worry what others say or think, including my self. Not to get sympathy- possible all this is due to my thoughts over the past few months. My Wonderful Wife (married 63 wonderful years)peacefully passed away 10/04/2019 - I was with with her in the ER as she was welcomed back to the LORD. and my discussions (?) with our Heavenly FATHER have been a little deep and peaceful lately. Ralph
John Cowne
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On Jan 21, 2020, Russo wrote:
Sorry I really don't know about the FCM -just stumbled on it's forum- tried to read all the comments from the beginning - as I don't know the FCM STATEMENT ,I really don't know. Only that what you and the Lord in your HEART feel, is what you should trust, not some GROUPS STATEMENT, it's just a Club,signing anything(if it's not against our Lord) shouldn't influence any feeling between you and OUR LORD. Don't sign anything if you don't want to - is the CLUB more important? Not to worry what others say or think, including my self. Not to get sympathy- possible all this is due to my thoughts over the past few months. My Wonderful Wife (married 63 wonderful years)peacefully passed away 10/04/2019 - I was with with her in the ER as she was welcomed back to the LORD. and my discussions (?) with our Heavenly FATHER have been a little deep and peaceful lately. Ralph
Ralph, I’m glad you gave me some important background as to where you’re coming from. First, I am so sorry to hear of your loss, and yet I am glad that your trust in Jesus is what sustains you. I have not experienced that test of my faith yet; I may never - I’ll ‘probably’ be called home before my wife. Secondly, I have to affirm that what we ‘think’ is extremely important, as Jesus said we must love God, among other aspects of who we are, with our ‘minds’ (Mark 12:30). That’s why I get concerned when I get the message (I think) that what we believe, and say we believe, is somehow less important than just saying ‘What you feel is what you should trust’. As a Christian, I can’t rely on what I ‘feel’; emotions by themselves are so deceptive. I must rely on God’s Word, the Bible, to inform me of what is True - and False! That’s where I touch on the beginning of this post. What I read in the FCM statement about the Christian foundation’s is what the Bible teaches. That’s where I’m coming from. Again, my heart goes out to you as you continue your journey. Keep trusting Jesus alone, friend.
Russo
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Thanks my FRIEND, hope you find your/and answer to your search, I hope/tried to help - like I mentioned - I don't know anything about FCM or where there at or coming from, Or really understand the problem/idea. Good Night, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite, if they do hit. them with a shoe, until they're black and blue. My Grandfather, a Pastor, used to say that.
John Cowne
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On Jan 21, 2020, Russo wrote:
Thanks my FRIEND, hope you find your/and answer to your search, I hope/tried to help - like I mentioned - I don't know anything about FCM or where there at or coming from, Or really understand the problem/idea. Good Night, sleep tight, don't let the bed bugs bite, if they do hit. them with a shoe, until they're black and blue. My Grandfather, a Pastor, used to say that.

Your grandfather sounds like a lovely guy. BTW, what got you into magic?
Russo
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Dad left when I was 7, Mom, sis, and I were on State Aid($150. a month for everything in the 40's) Did puppets as a hobbie, at 12 did a Christmas Party for the Womens Club - they gave me $10.Bought a few Magic tricks and learned Vent. Put a small add in the local paper- started doing Birthday Parties (had to include transportation). Also State aide said don't do this for a living -so didn't. As an adult, Reg. jobs paid wage, Health Ins.,
Vacations-etc. even when at time I made MORE $$ with shows. Met my Wife to be, entertaining at a girls ward at a hospital - above messages tell a bit about her. (My Love)...
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