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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Second Coming by Fraser Parker and Ross Tayler (17 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Ross Tayler
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Thanks to this of you who have given your feedback, it's been an absolute delight to read!

Apologies for not piping up sooner, have been very busy recently and attempting to avoid the internet to the best of my ability.

On the questions from Jeff and Raum I'd have to agree with Madison and Adrien, I think that for the majority of routines it would be unwise to repeat them for the same audience within a short time slot, as ambiguities which we wish to appear spontaneous and unique to that performance would be seen to be part of a set sequence and thus established as being methodologically relevant. Imagine, by way of a card-magic parallel, the use of a face-up key card or the "mistake shift"; its not so much that the methods risk being exposed as that the performance would lose the organic and natural nature that makes it a convincing piece of mind reading rather than a logic-puzzle of sorts. Hopefully that offers you some useful insight.

As for the language issue, there are perhaps three effects for which this would be a problem, as Adrien mentioned; and in this case it would only be a problem in languages for which the alphabet has no standard collating sequence (as I understand to be the case with Mandarin, although don't quote me on that), however you will have no problems if your language uses an alphabet such as the latin, greek, cyrillic, arabic etc.

Again many thanks to those who've given reviews and positive comments so far, Fraser and I are exceptionally proud of Second Coming, and really believe its the best content we're yet to produce together or as individuals. If anyone has any questions do feel free to ask and I'll happily respond, although as stated above I'm not hanging round here all that often, so apologies if that may take a few days.

Best wishes,

Ross.
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On Jan 18, 2017, Ross Tayler wrote:

...as I understand to be the case with Mandarin, although don't quote me on that...


Quoting you anyway Smile Mandarin is a dialect of Chinese, it is not a language. Chinese is the language in which there are two character sets, traditional and simplified, they are character sets so there are no alphabet systems for which to form words with. There is a separate phonetic system but what you're essentially doing is brute memorization. Smile #dailydoseofculture
Raymond Singson
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Does Second Coming come as a PDF in addition to the physical book?

RS.
“The purpose of art is to lay bare the questions which have been hidden by the answers.” -- James Arthur Baldwin



raymond.singson@gmail.com
kissdadookie
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On Jan 18, 2017, Raymond Singson wrote:
Does Second Coming come as a PDF in addition to the physical book?

RS.


Yup. Listed on his site as such.
Ross Tayler
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Haha, thank you kissdadookie.

Knew I was taking a risk! Thanks for correcting me though.

Also I'm inclined to suggest that "Daily Dose of Culture" should become a thread on the Café. Shape us all into nice rounded human beings!

Thanks also for answering people's questions, you're feeling to be far more useful than me!

Best wishes,

Ross.
Magidoc
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Eagerly waiting for the PDF to be sent...

Btw the website says the PDF will be sent within 12 hours of purchase, but I have yet to receive mine. Has anyone else had to wait for longer than the stated time?
Ross Tayler
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Apologies for the delay, Magidoc.

As I understand from Fraser your order came quite late in the evening. As he is a one man operation he's not always able to respond immediately, he needs his beauty sleep after all.

Your order is being processed as we speak, we hope you enjoy the material.

Best wishes,

Ross.
Magidoc
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Received. Thanks for the quick response, Ross. Just started reading and am liking it so far. I will give a review once I soak up all of the information. I am very excited!

Hope I didn't come across as impatient, I am only a hobbiest and am not used to spending so much for any kind of material. I have a feeling it'll be worth I though.

Michael
kissdadookie
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Quote:
On Jan 21, 2017, Ross Tayler wrote:
Haha, thank you kissdadookie.

Knew I was taking a risk! Thanks for correcting me though.

Also I'm inclined to suggest that "Daily Dose of Culture" should become a thread on the Café. Shape us all into nice rounded human beings!

Thanks also for answering people's questions, you're feeling to be far more useful than me!

Best wishes,

Ross.


Bwah ha ha ha. You're welcome. Smile
matthewmello
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I've had Second Coming for about a week, and I've finally been able to finish reading it!

Madison's review was incredibly comprehensive, and I agree with a lot of his thoughts. As with most of their work, Fraser and Ross have used a ton of applied psychology to create these demonstrations. I found myself gaining just as much useful information from the psychology behind the effects, as I did from the effects themselves.

"King's Force" was one of the stand-outs from the card section. I really enjoyed the simplicity of it, and the subtle manipulations of the participant.

As Madison also mentioned, I loved the logic of naturally eliminating the process behind the name guess.

"Pseudo Hellstromism" by Ross Tayler was also really interesting. I had a similar take on the concept in my "State of Mind" book, but Ross really pushed it to the limits, and has made it about as surefire as "muscle reading" can get.

If you've enjoyed the previous works of Ross and Fraser, then I'm certain that you'll find a lot of value in Second Coming, and you'll get much use out of the material in their newest offering. They have taken so many of their concepts and have expanded on them in very smart ways, as well as providing us with new ideas and psychological techniques to weave into our prop-less demonstrations.

I can't wait to see what you guys come up with next!
SteveTheAmazing
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Hi everyone, long time lurker, first time caller.

I'm not going to get into a full review in this post as you've already seen plenty of them (and I'll be recording an in-depth review later), but I wanted to go over my Pros and Cons in case another opinion was needed for anyone. Plus I wanted to give this post another boost.

Pros:
1. The methods presented are built off of workable methodologies from other areas of mentalism and magic. They're mixed together in a way that method becomes as short as possible to accomplish the effect as well as mixed with a bit of boldness. However, this is unlike previous prop-less releases. It really is difficult to prove any potential method from a spectator's point of view. That being said, if you perform this like it's real (and perhaps perform it more often to people that believe it's real) then it will be viewed as legitimate.

2. This next Pro is one I've been waiting for a while to see: Fraser and Ross talk about the necessity of the Silent Script. They bring it up a few times throughout the book and seem to really make sure that no stone was left unturned when it comes to how, when, and why to perform these effects. This is not a book that is trying to be better than, nor eliminate, physical methods. It's about legitimizing your performances and giving you performance options to stand above any other performer that your audience will see again.

3. The two of them make a great team in this book. It felt to me that they aimed to plug every hole in the performances and make sure that you had the necessary outs to make this as close to 100% as possible. They really seemed to look at these effects from every angle. This book does not feel rushed, nor made for money (despite it's high price tag.)

4. They begin by teaching the methods using playing cards so that you can get more comfortable with the ideas and see their effectiveness.

Cons:

1. This is not material for everyone and anyone. You will not have 100% accuracy. You will not likely be able to perform this if you aren't sufficient with silent scripting and believing that what you are doing has no method. This is material made for working pros, not to eliminate their current methods, but to add to them. These methods are spice to add to your routines to give your audience the feeling of reading minds and to lessen the use of props (thus increasing their effectiveness in your other effects.)

2. Occasionally they get a bit wordy and almost sound like they're trying to over-prove their own methods in the descriptions. It's not really a problem, but it was something I noticed and felt I should bring up as a counterpoint. I think it was to show that they have thought these methods out due to some recent internet backlash of previous material. Fraser and Ross really seem to flesh out everything they could about prop-less performances in this book, from creating a cooperative spectator, when to use the material, what to think as you perform, and what to happen if something fails. Combine that with some fresh takes on old workable methods and you have a winner in this book.

Value for money:

This is obviously a very expensive book. This book is not going to make you a superstar just from purchasing it. If you're sufficient in mentalism and confident in your character it could easily take you up a level, but it's not going to take you from 0-60. However, the book is fairly self contained and doesn't really need other publications to make the effects work. I'd always recommend looking into Kenton Knepper material or, in this case, some of Peter Turner's recent releases to be able to add to these effects. Pete's 2nd Penguin lecture would be a good additional purchase, as well as a few of his monthly pdf series.

This book reads like a summer blockbuster. You get excited as you read the methods. My brain has been racing and making connections between the ideas presented and my own work. You read it and can feel the excitement of the authors and perhaps even the mentalism community. I know I saw a lot of Facebook posts on my timeline that were excited for the material inside.

As well as the routines that are listed in the contents, they give a lot of additional routines, plots, and methods during their discussions in between effects. I missed some of these on my second read through of the book and that caused me to dismiss the Zodiac guess after originally loving it. On my third read of the book (in 10 days!) I saw Ross Tayler's billet peek concept that was attached to the Zodiac guess and when you combine that it becomes the cleanest divination I've seen. The method is non-existent as it's just a conversation between two people. The spectator doesn't write their sign down ever. Save your anagram for later in the routine if you want and reveal another person's star sign! It's truly a stand-out in the book.

I will have a video review up with more detail on each individual effect, but probably less detail on the pros and cons that I've already discussed. Thank you for reading and thank you for having me at the Café!
watkins13
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Now that I have finished reading, I can honestly say that this is probably one of the most important books on Mentalism you will ever read. There is a lot of debate now days having to do with going 'no prop' in our field of magic. I think this work by Ross and Fraser is pretty revolutionary when it comes to exploring the limits of propless Mind Reading. This stuff works, and is relatively easy to do. I have a feeling that in 100 years this will be one of the books that future Mentalists give the same weight as the classics we love so much now. The reason I say this is that these two are really thinking outside the box, pushing boundries, and creating entirely new, and never before seen methods. And the best aspect of Ross and Fraser's work is the fact they are never satisfied with their discoveries and continue to refine things- leading to each successive step toward true miracles.

We have got to watch these concepts grow from a very simple idea (Ouija) to the more subtle and deceptive pieces to be found in Second Coming. I would perhaps even recommend this book to a person that hated False Messiah, simply because of how much more refined and matured these new ideas are in comparison. Even if you aren't a fan of propless methods at all- this book will get you to think. Ross and Fraser's methods have inspired me greatly and I highly recommend anything they put out.

-Watkins
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If you guys want to see what kind of reactions this stuff gets, heres a quick video of me performing one of Ross and Frasers name guesses:

https://youtu.be/lWYd6WkEODM
kissdadookie
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On Jan 23, 2017, watkins13 wrote:
Now that I have finished reading, I can honestly say that this is probably one of the most important books on Mentalism you will ever read. There is a lot of debate now days having to do with going 'no prop' in our field of magic. I think this work by Ross and Fraser is pretty revolutionary when it comes to exploring the limits of propless Mind Reading. This stuff works, and is relatively easy to do. I have a feeling that in 100 years this will be one of the books that future Mentalists give the same weight as the classics we love so much now. The reason I say this is that these two are really thinking outside the box, pushing boundries, and creating entirely new, and never before seen methods. And the best aspect of Ross and Fraser's work is the fact they are never satisfied with their discoveries and continue to refine things- leading to each successive step toward true miracles.

We have got to watch these concepts grow from a very simple idea (Ouija) to the more subtle and deceptive pieces to be found in Second Coming. I would perhaps even recommend this book to a person that hated False Messiah, simply because of how much more refined and matured these new ideas are in comparison. Even if you aren't a fan of propless methods at all- this book will get you to think. Ross and Fraser's methods have inspired me greatly and I highly recommend anything they put out.

-Watkins


Those that got on the great Café deal Fraser put up a long while ago for False Messiah has the great pleasure of watching the work evolve Smile I suggest to anyone that enjoyed any of Fraser's work to try and get a hold of everything he's put out and take some time out to study them chronologically (based on release). Seeing how the ideas form, mature, and refine throughout is really a treat.
Adrien L.
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On Jan 24, 2017, watkins13 wrote:
If you guys want to see what kind of reactions this stuff gets, heres a quick video of me performing one of Ross and Frasers name guesses:

https://youtu.be/lWYd6WkEODM


Very nice performance Smile
watkins13
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Https://youtu.be/3weywieLp4E

A Review from Steve the Amazing
Mark Storms
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Been kinda quiet. Any others have this that care to share their experience?
Find out what you cannot do.., Then go and do it!
kissdadookie
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On Feb 6, 2017, Mark Storms wrote:
Been kinda quiet. Any others have this that care to share their experience?


200 pounds currently gets you the hardcover and PDFs for both False Messiah and Second Coming? Smile
Al Straker
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Second Coming Review

If you have wondered what might the next major breakthrough in mentalism look like and how to realistically strive for less prop reliance then you are the kind of person who will absolutely delight in reading this stunning new release from Fraser & Ross. I have quietly been stalking Fraser's work for years now as the first time I saw him perform his Kentonesque 'True Mysteries' effects I saw a guy who truly was looking to shift our beloved art form forward with his highly original and 'gutsy' manoeuvring used in the effects.

'Second Coming' has been getting some rather strong reviews and praise since being released and rightly so. Although Fraser and Ross have copped some flack at times, this would only be expected from two such progressive thinkers in our field. You could not put a value on what they share here. This may very well one day become one of the most sought after books on the planet. This work is astounding, even a performer who believes propless mentalism is not practical would have to admit the material in this tome absolutely disproves that thought once and for all.

As I read Kenton's introduction he spoke of the importance of 'boldness' and immediately I began to have twinges of doubt at the practicality of these effects, sometimes I have seen 'bold' translate in to 'useless' in effects I have studied in the past. However that did not turn out to be the case at all here. In fact I would be so bold as to say some of the effects are so ingenious they will not even feel 'bold' in performance and are in fact very attainable for anyone.

The effects have all been beautifully broken down by the fantastic Madison so I don't intend to rehash this. Beyond the effects themselves the principles taught here are phenomenal. With the purist creativity and efficiency of a Finley, the ingenuity of a Turner, the brass of a Jermay, the masterful scripting of Parker and Tayler is razor sharp in it's efficiency to cut straight to the good bits without too much journey or process seemingly involved. They have painstakingly and masterfully examined the best words to get from A to B and also sometimes hit on ways that kind of automatically extract bonus information for use later on.

It's difficult to get across how beautifully these guys have achieved their goals here without giving too much away. I currently perform a couple of propless effects of my own and am very fussy about propless as for me, it has fly with everyone and DR is too close to exposure at times. I will definitely be adding a couple of these beauties to my permanent sets, these effects are not DR reliant and will fly with everyone in the room including your participant.

Both congratulations and thank you to Fraser and Ross for this material, you have set the bar very, very high indeed.
Al Straker
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(Old clip, show has changed quite a bit since then!)

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MadisonH
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I decided to review this mammoth of a project on my new review channel "DormRoomReview"

You can check it out here!

https://youtu.be/gTYXTjNxaJk

I hope you enjoy,
Madison
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