The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Sharpie Through Bill by Alan Rorrison & SansMinds -VS- Timothy Wenk's MISLED (16 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
ricker
View Profile
Special user
Tampa, FL
914 Posts

Profile of ricker
This is a 100% RIP OFF of Tim Wenk's Misled. Tim has told me that Alan never contacted him to discuss the rights of the effect and even does not give Tim any credit.

Tim is mad Alan, best you contact him asap.

I assume this is just an oversight on your part. If not, I know a lot about intellectual property law overseas, as I own a software company and had someone steal my source code, and have my UK attorney that can look at this for him.

The guy went to jail for theft, since the UK laws are much more strict than US laws.

So I would contact Tim.... like now, when you see this.

Rick
Colin (C.J.)
View Profile
Special user
567 Posts

Profile of Colin (C.J.)
Are you Tim's agent/spokesman?
stempleton
View Profile
Inner circle
1320 Posts

Profile of stempleton
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2016, Colin (C.J.) wrote:
Are you Tim's agent/spokesman?


Tim made a personal note on Facebook describing exactly what the previous poster has commented upon. If you message him I'm sure he will give you the facts of this conflict.
Tim Cavendish
View Profile
Inner circle
1265 Posts

Profile of Tim Cavendish
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2016, ricker wrote:
Tim is mad Alan, best you contact him asap.

I assume this is just an oversight on your part. If not, I know a lot about intellectual property law overseas, as I own a software company and had someone steal my source code, and have my UK attorney that can look at this for him.

The guy went to jail for theft, since the UK laws are much more strict than US laws.

Magic tricks and program code are apples and bananas.

The written instructions for Misled are protected by copyright. Nothing else about it enjoys legal protection.

Even if it were patented, patents only last 20 years (and they were previously shorter). Any patent on it would have expired by now.

The whole idea behind intellectual property is that creators are granted TEMPORARY monopolies for a LIMITED TIME to harvest the fruits of their creative labor. But that monopoly expires, so one person does not have the power to block further development and/or application of the idea. It's a balancing act, with progress benefiting everyone as the overall goal.
Colin (C.J.)
View Profile
Special user
567 Posts

Profile of Colin (C.J.)
Sounds like Wenk won't be able to challenge Alan based on legal precedents.I'm sure they will have a conversation and work things out together.
ricker
View Profile
Special user
Tampa, FL
914 Posts

Profile of ricker
I love the so called lawyers here, yes my UK attorney said he could challenge, different laws in different countries. UK is bad ass on IP.
Tim Cavendish
View Profile
Inner circle
1265 Posts

Profile of Tim Cavendish
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2016, ricker wrote:
I love the so called lawyers here, yes my UK attorney said he could challenge

Yes, anything can be challenged.

But challenging and winning are not the same.

Either way, the money involved would be peanuts compared to the legal bills. It's just not a practical course of action.

But magicians love to bluster about suing people.
Steven Conner
View Profile
Inner circle
2368 Posts

Profile of Steven Conner
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2016, Tim Cavendish wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2016, ricker wrote:
Tim is mad Alan, best you contact him asap.

I assume this is just an oversight on your part. If not, I know a lot about intellectual property law overseas, as I own a software company and had someone steal my source code, and have my UK attorney that can look at this for him.

The guy went to jail for theft, since the UK laws are much more strict than US laws.

Magic tricks and program code are apples and bananas.

The written instructions for Misled are protected by copyright. Nothing else about it enjoys legal protection.

Even if it were patented, patents only last 20 years (and they were previously shorter). Any patent on it would have expired by now.

The whole idea behind intellectual property is that creators are granted TEMPORARY monopolies for a LIMITED TIME to harvest the fruits of their creative labor. But that monopoly expires, so one person does not have the power to block further development and/or application of the idea. It's a balancing act, with progress benefiting everyone as the overall goal.


Hi Tim, you only have half of it right. A Patent can stay inforce indefinitely if improvements are made. However; I think we have come to enjoy professional courtesy which by all standards does not enjoy legality.

Best

Steve
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
Alan Rorrison
View Profile
V.I.P.
2477 Posts

Profile of Alan Rorrison
Hello folks. Tim and I had a conversation this evening and I can't lie, I was some what worried/ troubled by his concerns as I have tried my very best to do the right things always.

However we had a conversation. I discovered that he had not seen my method before making his claim so I offered to send him a copy... as the conversation went on he asked for a simple text explination on method which I happily gave.

At the end of this we both agreed methods are different.. however I do feel that he believes he has the monopoly on pencil/pen through bills. In this community we know this simply is not the case... there are many different methods for an effect out there and the method is what makes the effect in the sales market...

I do fully credit Timothy for inspiration but as I said we both agreed methods are different and I even expressed an interest in contributing and assisting him adapting his gimmick to a sharpie. In my opinion what makes this community awesome and moves the art forward is the collaboration of new ideas and approaches being adapted to further the existing effect and take it to a new height.

As it stands the methods are different as agreed. It is simply an option and I have to admit I'm disappointed he didn't contact me first to enquire about it before making public claims. I hope Timothy is willing to further discuss with an open mind and hope we can find a common ground to contribute to magic community.

Meanwhile, enjoy Sharpie Through Bill folks.
Colin (C.J.)
View Profile
Special user
567 Posts

Profile of Colin (C.J.)
Quote:
On Dec 15, 2016, ricker wrote:
I love the so called lawyers here, yes my UK attorney said he could challenge, different laws in different countries. UK is bad ass on IP.

Of course he said he could challenge. He wants the cash. No chance of a win though! Alan has put this one to bed. Unlucky Ricker, your attempt to stir the pot has failed on this occasion.
magicbyfish
View Profile
New user
22 Posts

Profile of magicbyfish
I want to make it very clear that this is simply relaying a mesage.
i have no axe to grind with either side on this ,
but alan , ive been asked by timothy wenk to post the follwing as he is not a member here,
all I can say is maybe you two need to have another chat ,
i respect both parties and have no interest in any discussion on this but tim asked me to reply to your
post about the coversation ,

''Can you go on there and report that I said any reports that say I am ok with this, are UNILATERAL and DELUSIONAL.''
Colin (C.J.)
View Profile
Special user
567 Posts

Profile of Colin (C.J.)
Why does Tim apparently ask 'others' to post on his behalf? Very odd.

I know both tricks and the methods are different, so no foul. For the record my favorite ptb is by Astor.
Alan Rorrison
View Profile
V.I.P.
2477 Posts

Profile of Alan Rorrison
Thank you for relaying that on Magic by fish. Just for clarity. I simply say that we talked and both recognized the methods are different. And I'd be more than happy to further chat with Tim any time to hopefully find a common ground and contribute to the art together.
AndreaMooreMagic
View Profile
Regular user
110 Posts

Profile of AndreaMooreMagic
I am with Alan on this one. There are so many versions of classic magic. From color changing card to big illusions like cutting a person in half. It's the method that makes the product unique. If the method is different, it's a different trick. No foul at play here. Not sure what some are trying to stir up here.
MR Effecto
View Profile
Inner circle
2329 Posts

Profile of MR Effecto
Alan, don't worry about this fool. Your 100% right on this.
Doomo
View Profile
Inner circle
2292 Posts

Profile of Doomo
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2016, MR Effecto wrote:
Alan, don't worry about this fool. Your 100% right on this.


Ok... That was a bit on the rude side.
If you ever get to a point where words have no meaning, you're probably talking to a dog.

Remember! More Bang For LESS Bucks! It is the right way!

www.rfaproductions.com
Paul S Wingham
View Profile
Inner circle
1341 Posts

Profile of Paul S Wingham
This method and misled are kind of similar in terms of the illusion they create but equally different enough and certainly not close enough for foul play to be called in my opinion.

Back in the day this would have formed part of a multi trick dvd and like many single tricks released these days; I'm not convinced it represents great value for money as its a simple diy gimmick and a simple method; but its a sign of the times and that's how things get released these days. I'd prefer a return to the old days as multi trick dvds were far better value but it is what it is and I've certainly got less for more so no real complaints. I definitely wouldn't say I am unhappy as it works fine and is easy to make. Plus the use of a sharpie brings the trick a little more up to date. For once I think sans minds have delivered an honest trailer and a solid trick.

If you like the trailer and have a minute to make a very simple gimmick, I think you'll be happy with this. Simple but effective.
Steven Conner
View Profile
Inner circle
2368 Posts

Profile of Steven Conner
Does anyone remember Carl Cloutier pencil thru bill on his bill in kiwi dvd. Still fascinating.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
MR Effecto
View Profile
Inner circle
2329 Posts

Profile of MR Effecto
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2016, Doomo wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 16, 2016, MR Effecto wrote:
Alan, don't worry about this fool. Your 100% right on this.


Ok... That was a bit on the rude side.



I don't think so at all. If Tim has a problem with this let them work it out. don't need a 3rd party getting in this.
M Pitcher
View Profile
Elite user
Around the block
422 Posts

Profile of M Pitcher
I have both and they are different enough to make it a separate release.
I am with Alan on this one.

Bests,
MP
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » Sharpie Through Bill by Alan Rorrison & SansMinds -VS- Timothy Wenk's MISLED (16 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3~4~5~6~7~8~9 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2019 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.21 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL