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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The side walk shuffle » » I've got a plan (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Nala Nosmoht
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Surrey,B.C. Canada,
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... Eric ... sorry your issue, that'll teach you for trying to put a little cheer, and smile on peoples face! So many things to address it's very sad that they
would even pay attention to you other than to smile and tip their hat.
NYCTwister
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Come to New York City.

Just stay away from Times Square, and any Trump building.
No one gives adammn anymore
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
gallagher
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1080 Posts

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Hey Eric,
hope you had a good lunch today,
at the Court House(!).
,..hope you're not having dinner,
in the Jail!

,...tell the judge,
"We can't ALL be on government payrolls.
Some of us have to work, for a living."

,...naa.
Maybe you shouldn't tell him that.

Anyways,
good luck!
Break a nose,..(!),..
a LEG!
Remember, Mardi Gras' around the corner! 😆

Let us know how things went.
,...if we should come and bust ya out.
"oh let the midnight special,.."
gallagher
Eric Evans
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Rio Grande
655 Posts

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Ciao Gallagher! (or should it be Tschau?)

My court date was set on Feb. 14th, tomorrow. I'm here in the closest Walmart parking lot, that gets slow, but functional service. Setting my alarm clock for 7:15 or so (#^*%!) to make the court by 9:00 am tomorrow.

I've yet to make some notes on what I'd like to say to the Judge, but I'm armed with info provided by an excellent page on Wikipedia concerning previous court decisions on busker's first amendment rights.

Valentine's Day. How did he buy it? Die, that is? Regardless, there's some symbolism there for me at least.

"Remember the Alamo!"

Like Davy and Jim and José and Will, among some 200 other men, I'll go down fighting. Whining the whole way, but fight I will.

Break a Leg! And restore it!

I'll update you when I can.

Magish On Brothers!
Eric Evans
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Rio Grande
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Ok, I'm at JT's house, sucking up his internet whilst licking my wounds.

The prosecutor told me that I could pay a fine of roughly $200, be good for 5 months and it would all go away. I said no, that would be essentially saying that I had done something wrong. Besides, I want to continue to perform there when I'm in town. So I've got a court date now in front of a judge, March 22nd.

Two things, first, I think the prosecutor realizes he has a bad case, as I brought up the fact that the Officer wouldn't have written the ticket if I had moved, meaning that if I had been performing in another location I wouldn't have been ticketed. So secondly, if that's the case, why wouldn't he write me a ticket for being where I was? That was what the Officer's complaint against me was to begin with.

As for now, I've filed a case with the ACLU to request assistance in my upcoming trial. I hope they come to my aid, otherwise the City will probably win by intimidation if nothing else and I'll owe at least a thousand dollars in court costs.
jefkve
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Orange County, CA
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Quote:
On Feb 14, 2017, Eric Evans wrote:
Ok, I'm at JT's house, sucking up his internet whilst licking my wounds.

The prosecutor told me that I could pay a fine of roughly $200, be good for 5 months and it would all go away. I said no, that would be essentially saying that I had done something wrong. Besides, I want to continue to perform there when I'm in town. So I've got a court date now in front of a judge, March 22nd.

Two things, first, I think the prosecutor realizes he has a bad case, as I brought up the fact that the Officer wouldn't have written the ticket if I had moved, meaning that if I had been performing in another location I wouldn't have been ticketed. So secondly, if that's the case, why wouldn't he write me a ticket for being where I was? That was what the Officer's complaint against me was to begin with.

As for now, I've filed a case with the ACLU to request assistance in my upcoming trial. I hope they come to my aid, otherwise the City will probably win by intimidation if nothing else and I'll owe at least a thousand dollars in court costs.


Wow. While I'm glad to hear you're standing up for what you believe in, I'd be scared of the downside...Regardless, good luck getting representation and on your case!
D. Yoder
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Thank you, Eric, for not paying the fine and going away quietly.
imgic
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There use to a user on the Café "Chance" that was big into legalities of busking. Unfortunately he could be a bit...um...aggressive in his posts and was banned. But if you search it n his name, you'll see past threads where he talks about First Amendment rights. During one thread I did some googling and found:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Busking_(U.S._case_law)

Some good reference in there. Might help persuade getting ACLU to help. Good luck!
"Imagination is more important than knowledge."
G.Gilbert
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baltimore
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Yes you need a pitch where you can stay and work- and have security and stability there... Agree 1000%. Let me know if there's anything I can do or help with

GG
ed rhodes
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Eric, you might want to consider a "GoFundMe" page or some other means of receiving help.

I think a lot of the people on this board would contribute and it might help defray costs or pay the fine should it go against you.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
Eric Evans
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Rio Grande
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At this point any help might be better spent on emailing the San Antonio Municipal Court Judge that I'll face March 22nd. A show of support among my peers would mean a lot right now as far as the City of San Antonio is concerned.

I've no idea the judges name, I only saw her briefly and didn't catch her name. Sorry, little help here.

Help here?
cbguy
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If you go to the city court public records and look up the docket number, the judges name will be listed.

Once you have the name, post it, I can have 30 people send letters in support, not to mention everyone who will take the time to do the same, here on the Café.
Ish70
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Already writing my letter. Just need a target, er, name!

You are not alone!
Eric Evans
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Thanks Ish70 and cbguy.

I checked the docket of the San Antonio Municipal Court and they have no name listed for the Judge. But I did find out it is in Courtroom 7, 8:00 am Mar. 22nd.

The citation number is: B1621195-01 with a docket number of: X1557576

It's listed as an Environmental Trial. ha.

Hopefully that will help.

The court's address is:

401 S. Frio Street
San Antonio TX 78207

A big thank you to everyone who can pen something favorable on my behalf. There may be a few out there who might pen something unfavorable and hopefully they won't see this.
cbguy
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Done! and I will have a few others on it as well.
cuervo5150
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Apple Valley, California
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Count me in as well.

Environmental Trial…huh??

Best wishes,

Chris
MVoss
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Hi Eric,

You posted the information so I just did a little research, I hope you don't mind.

I'm not a lawyer or in any way qualified to offer legal advice.

That being said, I poked around the public records and noticed something that might be helpful.

Now, I'm going to break this into two parts.

Part 1:

First, just print this out and bring it with you to court.
https://www.sanantonio.gov/Portals/0/Fil......mers.pdf

Basically that's an official document from San Antonio saying busking is legal and outlining the cities policies on busking. Nothing in there mentions a peddlers license. Frankly, this should be pretty cut and dry.

Article about the cities busking ban being lifted:
http://www.kens5.com/news/local/with-bus......13933112


Part Two:

Before I found the above information I found all this stuff relating to what they have you cited for. In light of the above I don't think it matters, but you might want the information anyway.

Using the information you provided I found the docket listing. According to that listing your citation is for, “Failure to Obtain a Peddler's License.” So, I looked up the application for a Peddler's License in San Antonio, TX.

Link to the License Application:
http://www.sanantonio.gov/Portals/0/File......appl.pdf

Here is the part I found interesting, look at the section titled, “License Description.” It's on the third page. It asks the applicant to select one of three options describing the type of peddling in question, and all three use the following phrase, “Sales of tangible personal property.” Further all three talk about the, “delivery of property.”

Now again, I'm in no way a legal expert, and perhaps somewhere in the municipal code they have defined performance art as a type of property. However, I find it very hard to believe that performing a magic show counts as the “sale of tangible personal property.” First of all no one is required to pay, so it doesn't meet the definition of a sale. Second, a magic show at best barely meets the definition of (in so far as I as a lay person can see) “tangible personal property” as laid out in the Texas Property Tax Code.

The State of Texas Tax code defines “tangible personal property” in, Texas Property Tax Code 1.04 (5), as, “personal property that can be seen, weighed, measured, felt, or otherwise perceived by the senses, but does not include a document or other perceptible object that constitutes evidence of a valuable interest, claim, or right and has negligible or no intrinsic value.”

Traditionally, “tangible personal property” refers to stuff like office computers, furniture, and inventory.

Link to the Tax Code:
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/TX/htm/TX.1.htm

Conclusion:
If you were selling T-shirts, or trading show donations for physical property then I think they would have you dead to rights. But so long as you weren't selling anything, and just accepting donations for otherwise free entertainment, I don't believe you meet the State of Texas's definition of a peddler. In the latter case I believe you'd fall under the Street Performers policy they outlined. Either way, I really don't think they can stick you for “Failure to Obtain a Peddlers Permit” unless you were selling a physical good. The only thing they could get you on (per the busking policy) is making an oral request for money, but that isn't what you were cited for.

But again. I'm not a lawyer, and this shouldn't be considered legal advice.
gallagher
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MVoss.
That has to be the best Post of the week(!),
...if not the month!

It made me smile from ear to ear,
reading your effort.
Thank you.
Great information.


, . . . . . . . . ö. ö . . . . . . . . . .. .

Eric is being a bit evasive,
I find.
He's not really saying what went down.
Reading that the case is being treated as 'Enviromental',...
I suspect,
he was shut down,,.
NOT because of his Performance,
'collecting', 'trespasing',...'lack of permitt',
or the such.
I suspect,
he was grabbed for being too loud.(?)
,...using an amp(?).
My suspicions.

Amps,...
even when 'quiet',
still have 'power'(!),...dB's.
A good example is a Syringe.
It doesn't shoot much water,
but it shoots far.
A bucket,..
much more water,
but doesn't 'push it', so far.

In audio terms,
the Syringe has much more dB's then the Bucket.
The Bucket, more watts.
The Watts can be adjusted,..'Volume'.
The dB's remain constent.
Todays small portable Amps ALL pride themselves with high dB's.
110 to 130 is normal.
A jack-hammer, altho louder, in volume (watts);
averages 72 dB's.

In Europe, at the present,
it's becoming standard;
Police come ten meters in front of a Show,
pull out their meter,...
measure the dB's.
You get a nod,..
or a fine.

Allowed is 70 dB's.

I suspect, the boys-in-blue,
in San Antonio,
are probably doing the same.

I support it.
Amplified-shows are often "quiet",
....but,
the same "quiet"(!) three hundred yards farther down the street.(!)
dB's.


,.....i might be wrong,..
as usual,...

BUT, MVoss,
THAT is a super Post you put up!

gallagher
cbguy
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Even though, at this point, the db conversation is only an assumption, it makes me glad that I'm loud as "F" without using an amp. Having practiced very hard to get maximum volume from my diaphragm alone. I took some advice from Eddie Tullock, a long time ago and it has served me very, very well over the years.

...and a lot of cranberry juice after shows : )
Eric Evans
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Quote:
On Feb 27, 2017, gallagher wrote:



, . . . . . . . . ö. ö . . . . . . . . . .. .

Eric is being a bit evasive,
I find.
He's not really saying what went down.
Reading that the case is being treated as 'Enviromental',...
I suspect,
he was shut down,,.
NOT because of his Performance,
'collecting', 'trespasing',...'lack of permitt',
or the such.
I suspect,
he was grabbed for being too loud.(?)
,...using an amp(?).
My suspicions.



gallagher



Your suspicion(s) would be wrong. Though the cop mentioned my amp, he didn't cite me for its use.

Besides, I (unlike a lot of performers) know how to use an amp: It shouldn't be used for the draw, nor build (the audience should do that), it should only be used to augment ones voice, so I don't have to scream at everyone so the people behind me can hear what I say. No, one cop said he heard me and the other cop corrected him and said that they'd heard my audience (as it should be).

Gallagher, don't lump me in with others please. I started using an amp in maybe 2003 and I'd worked the street before that for over 12 years without an amp.

I know how to play in a locale and get along with everybody, usually even if they're major pains.

As to the cop, he could have easily just as well cited me for using a tip receptacle (my hat) as any tip receptacle is illegal in San Antonio, or so I've been told. I've no idea why he cited me for what he did, nevertheless, the fact that you would think I was holding something back; not telling the entire story, is a little disconcerting.

One could even find that "suspicion" of me being "evasive" as being extremely offensive.

I'm not sure how to end this line of thinking other than I hope that I'm wrong about your interpretation of the information I've shared here.
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