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danaruns
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I have to learn a double buckle for a particular trick I want to do. I worked pretty hard to learn to buckle only one card and not any others. Now I have to learn to buckle two. How does the technique differ from a single buckle? Any tips? PM me if talking openly here would be too revealing, please.

Thank you! Smile
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
ThomasJ
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After you begin to buckle the bottom card, apply pressure (you might find curling the finger slightly more upward will also help) to the second from bottom card. I usually use the pinky to help align these two cards and release pressure with the finger doing the buckling. Single buckle is sometimes taught using the middle or ring finger, but for a double buckle, I've found the index finger is best.

Bro. John Hamman has excellent work on it in his Secrets book published by Kaufman.

T.J.
avasatu
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First, I learned to buckle with the outer pinky pad just above the outer crease of the pinky AND the middle of the outer pad of the pinky. Then, to do a double, I simply buckle the first card just above the pinky crease, and as I begin to pull it down, buckle with the middle of the pinky pad. You essentially can learn it just by studying the single buckle in this way.
SimonCard
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, avasatu wrote:
First, I learned to buckle with the outer pinky pad just above the outer crease of the pinky AND the middle of the outer pad of the pinky. Then, to do a double, I simply buckle the first card just above the pinky crease, and as I begin to pull it down, buckle with the middle of the pinky pad. You essentially can learn it just by studying the single buckle in this way.


this sounds like pinky pull down..
ThomasJ
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If using the forefinger method, I might also add that downward pressure from the thumb also helps. Experiment with different positions of the thumb.

Avasatu, I use that method a lot when using it as a pinky pulldown before spreading a packet hiding the bottom card. The index method seems to take one less extra beat than the pinky for me though. Just depends on context.
Orlan
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Is it for a four card packet trick by any chance? It may not be relevant if not, but Bro John Hamman also has a no get ready double from a packet that I consider superior to a double buckle.
avasatu
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, SimonCard wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, avasatu wrote:
First, I learned to buckle with the outer pinky pad just above the outer crease of the pinky AND the middle of the outer pad of the pinky. Then, to do a double, I simply buckle the first card just above the pinky crease, and as I begin to pull it down, buckle with the middle of the pinky pad. You essentially can learn it just by studying the single buckle in this way.


this sounds like pinky pull down..


I guess I'm not sure what the OP exactly needs help with given the description of the problem. Sure, you put the pressure with the index, but I assumed based on the post's wording the OP was having trouble getting the break exactly under 2 cards afterward, as a buckle generally bows a small group of cards all at once regardless of how many you want to end up with.
danaruns
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, ThomasJ wrote:
After you begin to buckle the bottom card, apply pressure (you might find curling the finger slightly more upward will also help) to the second from bottom card. I usually use the pinky to help align these two cards and release pressure with the finger doing the buckling. Single buckle is sometimes taught using the middle or ring finger, but for a double buckle, I've found the index finger is best.

Bro. John Hamman has excellent work on it in his Secrets book published by Kaufman.

T.J.


Thanks. Yes, I use my index finger for the single buckle, and for working on the double. And my thumb is usually not doing much, but I will experiment.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
danaruns
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, Orlan wrote:
Is it for a four card packet trick by any chance? It may not be relevant if not, but Bro John Hamman also has a no get ready double from a packet that I consider superior to a double buckle.


Yes, without revealing too much about it, it does use four cards, though all four are never seen.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
danaruns
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, avasatu wrote:

I guess I'm not sure what the OP exactly needs help with given the description of the problem. Sure, you put the pressure with the index, but I assumed based on the post's wording the OP was having trouble getting the break exactly under 2 cards afterward, as a buckle generally bows a small group of cards all at once regardless of how many you want to end up with.


For my normal buckle move, I put pressure with the index finger in a way that bows the bottom card only and leaves all the other cards together, so that one card drops down and I can grab it with my pinky.

I now need to find a way to bow and drop two cards together, so I can get the pinky break on those two cards. I then have to in-jog and steal the two cards on the bottom, and wrist kill them as I ditch them in my pocket, while handing the remaining cards to the assistants. And it has to be really smooth, without any fumbling or peeking, because it happens right under the assistants' noses while they are burning my hands. So I need a method that allows me to instantly get the two bottom cards without hesitation, get-ready or fumbling.

Not sure my description makes sense, but to say any more would be problematic.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
danaruns
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, danaruns wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, avasatu wrote:

I guess I'm not sure what the OP exactly needs help with given the description of the problem. Sure, you put the pressure with the index, but I assumed based on the post's wording the OP was having trouble getting the break exactly under 2 cards afterward, as a buckle generally bows a small group of cards all at once regardless of how many you want to end up with.


For my normal buckle move, I put pressure with the index finger in a way that bows the bottom card only and leaves all the other cards together, so that one card drops down and I can grab it with my pinky.

I now need to find a way to bow and drop two cards together, so I can get the pinky break on those two cards. I then have to in-jog and steal the two cards on the bottom, and wrist kill them so I can ditch them in my pocket after some time misdirection, while handing the remaining cards to the assistants. And it has to be really smooth, without any fumbling or peeking, because it happens right under the assistants' noses while they are burning my hands. So I need a method that allows me to instantly get the two bottom cards without hesitation, get-ready or fumbling.

Not sure my description makes sense, but to say any more would be problematic.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
magicfish
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Dingle was its master.
Basically , for a full deck, do a buckle...and keep going. The second one will buckle.
ThomasJ
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You might be using the very tip of your index to buckle the bottom card. Try buckling the first with the middle of the finger pad and continue the inward and upward motion with the index, but now closer to the fingernail. Two cards should separate and the pinky can get a break. I'd likely use a pinky pulldown in this case, but a double buckle is good to have mastery of for other effects. A few options to cop the cards:

Left index pushes all 4 cards inward as a unit deeper into left palm immediately before right hand grabs the top 2 cards.

Square the cards with left fingers along the long sides as the right hand holds packet in end grip. Move the packet deeper into the left palm during the first motion of squaring. Right hand moves the top 2 cards forward during second "stroke" of squaring.

You could also remove the top 2 cards in right hand end grip (keep the right pinky free) after the left pinky break is obtained. As the right hand moves the top 2 cards away (forward out of the left hand), the right pinky taps the outer right corner of the 2 lower cards, driving them into left hand cop position.

Edit: magicfish's full deck comment got me thinking. Try practicing a double buckle with half the deck and slowly remove cards until you're down to 4. It's much harder to double buckle from a small packet in comparison to a larger packet. Hopefully that will help you get it down.
avasatu
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Ok, I understand now, it's for a packet trick Smile

ThomasJ pretty much covered it, but one thing that helps me isolate two cards in a buckle from a packet is to make the pressure diagonally downward coming from the index finger (almost towards the thumb pad) instead of inward as you might do in a traditional buckle, and then make sure you start the buckle away from the tip of the index as mentioned above. If you do as I am saying, you can almost feel the two cards run off the meat of the index, and this can be done extremely quickly.

I can PM a video if you don't find what you need in these answers.
danaruns
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Thanks, guys. That's good stuff. I will start working on it, and check in if I run into trouble. Thank you again.
"Dana Douglas is the greatest magician alive. Plus, I'm drunk." -- Foster Brooks
magicwiia
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Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, Orlan wrote:
Is it for a four card packet trick by any chance? It may not be relevant if not, but Bro John Hamman also has a no get ready double from a packet that I consider superior to a double buckle.


Can you describe this move by chance and how is is different than his instantaneous DL with a full deck? Is that move in his yellow book?
Rupert Pupkin
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Quote:
On May 13, 2019, magicwiia wrote:
Quote:
On Jan 4, 2017, Orlan wrote:
Is it for a four card packet trick by any chance? It may not be relevant if not, but Bro John Hamman also has a no get ready double from a packet that I consider superior to a double buckle.


Can you describe this move by chance and how is is different than his instantaneous DL with a full deck? Is that move in his yellow book?


The small-packet handling is specifically designed to be used with four cards. The mechanics are such that it would not be possible with any other number of cards.
Zauberman
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Buckle a single card back with your 1st finger.....hold it down and back with your pinky.....then buckle another card bringing it down to the first.

In essence you are doing 2 single buckles. Somewhat easier and sure fire.
Bob G
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I was just looking at the Hamman book yesterday; he also has a method for doing a DL with a 5-card packet.
MaxfieldsMagic
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If you absolutely have to nail that move 100% without visible effort, delay or fumbling, while they’re burning your hands, as you say, it may be worth it to cheat. Add a thick card to the deck, then sometime before or during your effect, put a small downwards crimp in the inner right corner. Make sure the card winds up where the upper card would be in your double buckle. Now you can grab it without effort and without a buckle. I’ve tried this with a Frank Simon effect that I love where one of the cards is secretly face up - any unwanted slippage or sliding during the double buckle will blow the effect, so I decided to eliminate the risk.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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