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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Just this past Saturday I performed for a corporate banquet at a local casino for a group of 225 people. The show went fairly well, but wasn't without some difficulties, mostly due to the rather extreme and collective reluctance of the audience to participate in the program. Even with many years of professional experience, I was just having a difficult time getting people to participate without much pumping, priming, joking, etc.
The show's success was ultimately demonstrated by a couple of things: 1) the fact that the man paying the bill was extremely pleased with the show and made it quite plain to everyone and 2) a man in the audience who explicitly stated prior to the show (during my walk-around portion of the gig) to "do NOT pick me, whatever you do...I don't want to participate in the show" was not only accidently picked at random (which got quite a laugh), but he was so impressed with how I handled him and the show overall that he's booking me for a Christmas event already this year for another group of about 200 people. Regardless of all of this however, I still walked away with a great sense that I was having a difficult time "seducing" or "winning" the audience over in general. Or at least so it seemed. Without going into too much boring detail, as I gathered feedback from different people throughout the evening afterwards it made me think back to this interview that Dinah Shore did with Orson Welles many years ago about audiences being a dying species. So I revisited this video today and have been giving thought to much of my act as I look towards improving things throughout this new year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V421bF698sA&spfreload=5 So many people's experience of entertainment seems to happen in a completely different dimension these days, thanks to the instant access and abundance of media--anytime, anywhere, whatever we want. People compare what they see LIVE to what they see in abundance daily on video, TV, etc. They are distanced from it all and yet when magic, mentalism, live theatre, etc., happens before them, it can be so puzzling, overwhelming, etc., that they just aren't sure what to do. In a corporate environment it is difficult to do anything with any real depth, and different audiences require different approaches. The dynamic and demographic of live audiences has definitely changed drastically over the years, and as LIVE mystery performers we must adapt. I can't help but think at times, however, that real live audiences are a dying species. What are some of your thoughts?
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I couldn't agree more. I've had this discussion with many working pros and celebrity performers, and another component that goes hand in hand with this idea is that younger generations, let's say under 40, simply have not been raised on live entertainment as previous generations were. They've been raised on electronic entertainment - DJs, video games, etc. They do not know how to approach, respond or know how to be an audience member at a live performance. They rarely go to the theater but rather clubs and do not know live performance or audience etiquette. Go to any comedy club. This is why there is so much heckling and disarray, younger people have little if any consideration or respect for a venue, performance or entertainer. Even security, again usually younger males, often let thing pass that would have been dealt with immediately just a decade or two ago.
It's almost to the point of performers having to educate audiences. This is why in many live venues there are so many signs informing what many of us think as basic common sense and knowledge, which of course isn't so common anymore. They key to a successful performance of any kind is in the dynamics - venue dynamics, performance dynamics and audience dynamics. Not being aware and controlling these things as much as possible, which should be just as much part of your performance as your material, production, etc., is setting yourself up for potential problems and risks. Also audiences today have more of a "challenging" attitude towards a performance rather than a spectator or selected participant. Good observations. |
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 12, 2017, Mindpro wrote: Speaking of dynamics, the casino where this particular show took place had everything set up beautifully for me. I've done many shows there in the last few years and know the event management staff. In fact, the reason I even got the gig at all was because the casino highly recommended me to them according to the event planner. This also made the planner's job much easier as they repeatedly told her "No need to follow up with anything, we know Curtis and know EXACTLY what he needs for his show!" Which she just loved (and so did I, of course). The original audience was 360 people, but due to cold weather a huge number of their people cancelled at the last minute (many travelled 2-3 hours or more to get there). They paired down the set-up a little bit with regards to the tables and lay out of the room, but still had several more tables set up than people who actually showed up. Once the planner told me the drastic reduction in size of the audience, the first thing I said to her was "That's okay, but please make sure that people fill up the tables in the front." Even after THREE separate announcements made by the upper management/staff of the company during dinner and prior to the show, NO ONE WOULD SIT AT ANY OF THE TABLES THAT WERE ADJACENT TO THE STAGE! The entire front row of tables (7 tables with 8 seats each) remained empty and people REFUSED to go sit up close where they could see the show better, even after being told to do so. I even told the man making the last announcement "Tell them the people seated in the back are going to be picked the most." It got a laugh, but no one budged, even after the five minute warning that the show was about to begin. So I spent most of the show playing down in the crowd among the tables. If anyone complained about not being able to see I really didn't care. I sprinted around and kept the show high-energy, and got the best 75-minute cardio workout I had all week!
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
I'm envisioning the Richard Simmons of mentalism!
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Yesss! It was FAB-U-LUSSS! I had everyone standing and doing mental gymnastics and aerobics! And they loved my shorts!
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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Looch Inner circle Off by 3362 Posts |
This is a wonderful thread! I guess the younger generations cant hide behind their phone or iPad screens at a live show and often aren't sure 'how' to act at such an event. It is indeed a dying species Curt, very very true!
The majority of my audiences these days do tend to be older than myself (40-70) and they might be the last of their generation in that sense.
Mentalism Products: https://www.readmymind.co.uk/ Learn Mentalism with the Pro's: https://www.mymind.rocks
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
Hmmm... I'm of mixed opinion on this.
On one hand I see young 20 somethings leaving trash everywhere they go and generally not giving much of a care to anyone or anything but themselves. Also see it in the gym from the younger people sitting on machines and checking their texts while people are waiting to use the machine. You have to get right in their face to get their attention. On the other hand, the antiquated concept of a theater show and it's near century old construct is something the older performers cling to, ignoring how their audiences have changed. Think you will train a young audience how to react to antiquated live theater? Good luck with that. The wine biz has the same problem. They can't figure out how to sell wine to the 20 somethings. Reason being is their business model is very antiquated. The old guard critics are out of touch with the tastes and style of this new generation. The booze industry knows how to sell to them. The beer industry knows how to sell to them. But the wine industry is sticking to its old out of touch ways. Oh, except the crazy young upstart wine companies. They are working outside the box and connecting with that 20 something group. There was a wonderful presentation at Mindvention this year by a performer who sells out his venue in San Francisco twice a month to that very same self indulged group of tech and startup driven 20 somethings. His show is quirky, sometimes neurotically paced, plays on many levels at once to kick the A of their ADD, and he connects very well with them. It's very much an involving event rather than a show to sit, watch, and clap at. Shows which command your attention like Cirque or Teatro Zinzanne actually at times physically grab you and take you somewhere. They don't ask permission. They don't request. They grab you and physically move you. In many ways new theater has to do this, both literally and figuratively. Times are changing. Personal technology has made the world much more personal and a lot less societal. Adapt or cling to the past. |
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 12, 2017, CurtWaltermire wrote: I noticed this same problem in my own recent show. No one wanted to sit in the front row. How I solved the problem was to only place enough seats to accommodate the expected number of people who would be attending (based on will-call sales), erring on the short side. That way, those who arrived later HAD to be in the front, as there was nowhere else to sit. If we had any last-minute sales, we could always quickly add some extra seats in the back. Part of the problem is that magicians have a habit of abusing their "volunteers," and it's gotten to the point that most folks don't want to be chosen, since they're afraid to be embarrassed. Once we stop engaging in this behavior and treat our participants with respect, we will find it much easier to get folks to be an active part of our shows.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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phillsmiff Inner circle UK 1794 Posts |
I performed at a charity gig recently and we had a couple of small cabaret 'theatre' spaces divided out from the main room. The first one I performed in was great, the next, no-one wanted to sit near the front. I had to summon them down by explaining that they have paid to come to an event where magic is the main entertainment, they have chosen to come and sit in this area, which exists only as a place for magic to happen, they stayed when I walked in and started performing so they obviously want to see what I'm about - it's too late to get cold feet when I ask someone to participate!
None of the performers that night are the kind of ******s who get mileage from belittling the punters so I don't think that they'd been put off by someone there, but certainly like Philemon highlights, magicians have a reputation for 'outsmarting' people or being 'witty' at their expense. That's totally not my thing, and I suspect that much of the friction the performers in this thread are reporting is because people HAVE seen someone like this and been intrigued by the magic but been put off volunteering by the 'comedy'. Phill
The new Elysian Duets, marked cards featuring my unique Optical Marking System:
-+: https://phillsmithcreative.com/products/elysian-duets :+- |
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jstreiff Special user 701 Posts |
Obvious question, has anyone in tne community addressed these issues in writing? A Mindvention presentation was mentioned above, but are there any resources that addresses this current situation directly?
John
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 13, 2017, Tom Cutts wrote: Tom brings up some great points. I also see this pertaining to the business side of entertainment. Areas like Branson, Missouri have not kept up with today's audiences, times and marketplaces, preferring to cling on to a dying market. Las Vegas is having many of these same problems. The 20 and 30-somethings are coming to town drinking and clubbing, not gambling or going to shows. Dayclubs (pools) and nightclubs are all that seem of interest, some sporting events UFC, etc. I think we have seen more interruptions and distractions in shows here due to this. These guys no longer drink to recreate but rather to binge to blitz. Then this is the state they are in when they do go to shows and again they simply don't behave as expected. Again, they seem to be quite vocal, obnoxious and challenging, then on top of that think its funny and cool. I would think it's more a matter of basic manners, etiquette and common sense, but I guess those are old-school concepts. And of course they can't get out of their phone. It is literally asking too much for them to put there phone away for 75 minutes. This is also why many of these younger people simply prefer to get their entertainment from Youtube. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10587 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 13, 2017, jstreiff wrote: Sorry, I think we were posting at the same time. I think this is why the whole "street performance" movement has gained in popularity. In some ways I think it is the attempt to address it from younger performers to this target audience. Again, going back to my original post, it's sad that this is what they know and think is entertainment. I think this IS an attempt to address it or adapt to it. |
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Thanks to all who are weighing in here. Some great points and observations.
My whole point in bringing up this topic is to address the general issue of the changing demographic and dynamic of our live audiences these days and to get a discussion going to see what some other pros and semi-pros here think, observe, experience, etc. I've always worked hard to adapt to such changes, but sometimes facing certain audiences can nevertheless be very frustrating. Quote:
On Jan 13, 2017, Tom Cutts wrote: Tom, that is sometimes my approach and was my approach with this audience last Saturday once I realized they were really "sitting down" on me. It worked. They refused to be moved so I ramped things up, grabbed them by their shirts, and yanked them out of their seats. For the most part, it worked and that's what saved the evening. Quote:
On Jan 13, 2017, Philemon Vanderbeck wrote: This was a large corporate banquet and I had no idea of the changes until I arrived. The event planner removed a good number of tables even before I got there, yet insisted on leaving a handful of tables for people who "just might show up anyway." That's when I told her to make sure everyone was seated towards the front...well...she tried and couldn't and neither could any of the upper management. I really wanted to go up to the man who was paying for it all and say "Sir, you're paying me several thousand dollars to be here and entertain your company, in addition to feeding these people (HUGE buffet with Prime Rib, dessert, etc) and giving them free booze (open bar for 225 people), etc., and are you really going to let them flip you the middle finger like this and just do whatever they want?" But I didn't. Of course it really goes without saying that audiences at corporate banquets are much different than audiences in comedy clubs, theatres, or other venues where many of us perform our shows and people are buying tickets to come and see us. I know we all realize this. Even still, what I'm speaking of I notice somewhat across the board. I do an occasional act in a comedy club and a cabaret venue and a public show and it's the same way there, even though exhibited a bit differently. I was visiting with a former business partner and friend of mine years back and we were talking about the state of cartoons these days when he made an excellent point. I said "so many of the ones I see today are just plain DUMB, and so many of the classics still have me rolling (laughing). I mean, I GET IT, but the stuff just isn't funny." He then replied, "That's because the people that made cartoons when we were younger had been brought up on classic literature, no TV, etc, and the people making cartoons today have been brought up on...well...CARTOONS." To which I replied, "Yabba Dabba Doo..."
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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Tom Cutts Staff Northern CA 5925 Posts |
You R gunna luv this...
(Syntax on purpose) So I'm watching the idiot box above one of my goto machines at the gym when what to my wandering eyes does appear... "... I kid you not... QUOTE! "Should the NBA speed up end games to attract millennials." It's not just theater, folks. The times are changing to the point sporting events are considering rule changes to attract the Mills! |
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DynaMix Inner circle 1148 Posts |
It was a topic on all the major sports shows today as well. I suppose short attention spans are just the norm these days.
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Philemon Vanderbeck Inner circle Seattle, WA 4694 Posts |
Another strategy that you might consider employing if the venue allows is to literally remove the front row. Once most of the audience is seated and it becomes clear that no one is sitting in the front, you (and/or your stagehands), remove all the chairs and/or tables. Obviously this won't work in a theatre space which has permanent seats, but in a banquet room or other similar venue, you can make this happen. Suddenly, the second row discovers they're now the first row, and you have acquired additional performance space (if you work that way).
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician "I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five." |
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Or we could just stream all of our events live on social media so that the audience can watch the show, which is happening right before them, through their smartphones!
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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CurtWaltermire Special user Curtis The Mentalist 505 Posts |
Quote:
On Jan 13, 2017, Looch wrote: I will say, Looch, that for some strange reason I find that having audiences that are predominantly one generation or another is often quite enjoyable, particularly in the corporate realm where people are somewhat obligated to be there as opposed to public shows or other venues. When I have an audience of all younger people (I'm knocking on 50 so I see "younger" as under 30), I find they often really let loose and have a blast more overtly, though I have to deal with them differently than I do a group of 55+ people at a corporate event, country club, etc. The older generations respond to different things for different reasons. The toughest crowds at times are a mix of those, and that's what last Saturday's crowd was. It's not really so much that I think they're actually a dying species, but rather that the older generations are definitely passing away and newer (and very different at that) generations are rising up and it is definitely requiring some creativity and work to keep up with and adjust to them. I think that a study of stand-up comics today is a good way to understand today's ever-changing audiences.
Curtis Waltermire
Mentalist/Magician/Speaker/Actor/Grandpa/Cool Dad & Above-Average Husband CurtisTheMentalist.com YouTube Channel My Touring Public Show "The Mastermind Show" Check Out My Podcast "The Mastermind Show with Curtis The Mentalist" |
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Stunninger Inner circle 2819 Posts |
Ringling Bothers Circus is shutting down after 146 years. Kenneth Feld, owner, says there wasn't any one thing that led to this decision, but a combination of factors, some of which are unique to the Circus business. Others reasons cited in the article are more general, such changing public tastes and shorter attention spans.
Sad. This really was an amazing live entertainment experience. https://www.dailyherald.com/article/20170114/news/301149838/ |
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davedee New user 11 Posts |
Here is an article that ties into this important topic.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/14/entertainm......closing/ Although I don't do shows professionally anymore, other than the night before I do a speaking presentation, attendees at seminars who, in many cases, paid big bucks to be there, are texting, checking email and I even saw one guy looking at porn, instead of watching and learning from the presenter. |
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