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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Rings, strings & things » » Steve Fearson's Hook up in WIkipedia fully exposed, is Steve ok with that ? (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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SoyMilky
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Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fearson's_floating_cigarette
I suppose it is good to be remembered, I just wonder whether Steve is ok with his discovery wide open like this.
Kyoki_Sanitys_Eclipse
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There's a song by Bob Dillan about this. The times they are a changin
Al Schneider
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Times achangin, achagin, achagin????
NO!

Back in the 1940’s a book was published showing a number of magic devices. I can’t remember the name of the book or when it exactly was published. I suspect one of the wizards of magic trivia will answer that question. Magicians at the time were outraged. The only thing different from then to now is the media this sort of thing appears in.

I like the fact someone worries about Steve’s feelings. Once I made a comment about one of his moves that I thought were old and public domain. He flamed me for revealing his method on the forum. Oh well.

Once someone asked me how I felt about Matrix and its distribution in the magic industry. Well, I thank that person. However, I did not respond. I don’t know how to respond. I invented it in 1960. Before I presented it in Genii in 1972 it had been stolen by many. I was standing in a magic shop in my home town of Minneapolis. On a rack behind me I spotted a booklet titled, “Miracle Coins.” On flipping it open, I saw it described Matrix. I am very grateful to Richard Kaufman for putting a nice display of Matrix in Genii some years after its first publication. I think Matrix is still associated with the name Al Schneider. Early on I challenged someone that used the name Matrix for a trick that was not Matrix. Three inches from my face he retorted that Matrix was public domain. Some punk did a card trick and called it Matrix. I sent him a note about it and he asked, “Who the hell are you.” The trick was sold in the open market for over a $100.

Over the last forty years Matrix has gotten around. It is in many books by people that are stars in magic. I do not call them my friends. Some punk put out a book titled “Matrix, Gods Way.” I do not call him my friend either. Most of the greats do some form of Matrix. Look how many times Matrix is performed on You Tube. Then, look at how many times Matrix is explained on You Tube. A lot of them are snot nosed kids with their crotch showing on the other side of their bed.

I cannot tell you how I feel about this. Like Richard Kaufman said to me, “It doesn’t matter.”

No, I don’t think times are achagin. People are what they are. I don’t think that will ever change. That probably is a good thing.

Anyway, I am glad some one is worried about Steve’s method being revealed to the public.

Al Schneider
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
ThSecret
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I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, if you are able to figure out the effect is called "floating cigarette" and it is created by Steve Fearson, not only can you figure out how it is done by researching it, you can purchase it directly from him. Although wikipedia gives away a very good secret (which I am completely against), I feel laypeople have some sort of understanding that there is a rope, string,magnet or some sort of "device" being used by the magician. Even if you know what it is done with, the presentation is what entertains, and the technical aspects of the presentation are what you really want his dvd for. (I do not see this as an excuse however, to provide exposure, especially in an open-public domain.)

What can we as a magician/performer do? Was consent by Fearson given? (I am guessing no...) Is it worth his time and effort to pursue this as an issue? Can a simple cease-and-desist letter be enough to have that content removed, and how does one even know that content is available/exposed? I think these are interesting questions that should be explored.
A good example of this was Penn and Teller, specifically Teller's Shadow Rose illusion being exposed by some other magician. They went to court, ruling was given in favour of Teller. How much time and money went into this and how big of a headache was it? Does that average magician have the resources to pursue such a route? This is also a bit of a different scenario, where Teller actually has a Patent to this illusion!

On an ethical or moral perspective it probably is not a nice feeling when someone steals, exposes, calls out, whatever else you can think to call it, something you have spend your hard work and time creating. It steals from the magicians pocket, which is twice as bad because their job does not include benefits. In some cases it's like their baby, and it is being exposed! A big part of this is the rapid growth of the technological world we live in - things good and bad spread like wildfire.
@Schnieder, sorry to hear about your experience.

I was reading about magicians in the 1800/1900's, and (I don't remember names 100% so I will not mention them. Although Houdini was with the likes of them.) many of them despite having written down their secrets, asked to have them taken to the grave with themselves. In some cases these wishes were respected, in other cases they were not, in hopes of "preserving" the illusions. - I suppose there and pros and cons to both.
"A play does not take place on stage but in the minds of the spectators."
SoyMilky
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Dear Al Schneider, there is one thing I have learned.
Whatever is the magic trick you want to learn, there is always a 13 year old kid that will either show you how it is done, or did it so badly that you will know how it is done.

Magic based on just pure "secrecy" for its value is dead, it is more about performance now.
As a matter of fact, there are a version of your "over a $100" trick that is being taught by a 13 year old on the very trick you have mentioned.
Al Schneider
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SoyMilky
I am not sure what you are trying to say. I have been in magic 57 years. My creations are performed by thousands. I have walked into large convention shows and see every performer doing my material. I have traveled to Europe and see many using my techniques. I see my material used on TV. I think I have seen a great deal of magic and what it is about. I get the feeling that your post is trying to tell me something that I do not know. I am at a loss to determine what that is.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
Pete Biro
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Too bad the magic world isn't like the music world where fees are paid to song writers every yime their works are used.
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STAY TOONED... @ www.pete-biro.com
SoyMilky
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I absolutely respect what you have given to the world of magic Al Schneider, I wish I can contribute to it the same way you do in some small way.
As to my statement, I am simply saying we are living in a day and age now where if you want to know how a trick is done, you can just YouTube it and a 13 year old kid will either show you how it is done, or do it so badly that you will know how it is done.

In the future when we have direct mind access to YouTube or Whatever is the YouTube of the future, people would literally see a trick with their eyes and their brain probe will YouTube/Google it to find out how it is done instantaneously.

Magic is more about performance now than anything else.
The masked magician realized that a long time ago when everyone else is still living in la la land.
Al Schneider
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When I was 17 years old I found myself sitting in a chair in the Fox Fun-n-Magic store downtown Detroit. Karrel Fox and Roy Kissel were standing in front of me trying to explain that magic technology was not the important thing in doing magic. They were making the argument that how you performed, the sizzle, was what made magic important. That was 57 years ago. I understand that your point is that performance is now important and that in the past secrets reigned. Could you explain this in more detail. Also, which masked magician are you talking about?
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
warren
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Magic has or should always be made to be fun and entertaining ie about performance however I agree that youtube is killing magic and making things more difficult for today's magicians but I can't see a mind access to youtube happening anytime soon Smile
Al Schneider
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Warren
I agree that YouTube is disgusting relative to magic. I once complained to them about their behavior to no avail. In fact, as I pursued it, I found out that if I complained to someone exposing things, I could be libel for harassment.

But I have a question, is it killing magic? I would like to hear from guys that make a living off of magic. Does it hurt the guys really performing? Certainly magic went down the tubes after 9/11. All business did. I would like to hear the opinion of the guys that do it for a living or have made a living doing magic. I wonder what David Copperfield would say about it. We hobbyists can blather on and on about it. But that is part of the hobby.

About times achangin. Times are always achagin. If times weren't achagin that would be a real change.

This makes me think of young people discovering sex. When they do, they seem to act as if no one else knows about it. Then, babies appear. Then, times are really achagin.
Magic Al. Say it fast and it is magical.
SoyMilky
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Al Schneider Quote:
"I agree that YouTube is disgusting relative to magic. I once complained to them about their behavior to no avail. In fact, as I pursued it, I found out that if I complained to someone exposing things, I could be libel for harassment."

Do not fight what you do not want to be, the more you fight it, the more energy you give it, the bigger it will become.
Case in point, example:
1: You saw your trick exposed in YouTube.
2: You complained about it somewhere, doesn't matter, let's assumed you've successfully took it down.
3: People will be like "Oh wow, what is that BIG IDEA that HAS to be taken down ?"
4: They then realize other people also now wants to know what IS the big deal about, because it was TAKEN DOWN!!! It must be huge !
5: Catering to YouTube Views for market shares, everyone will now race to see who can get the secret out first to get their millions of views.

You fight one, two will appear, you fight two four will appear.
The age of deception is over.
Magic is about performance.

Jay Sankey for example, went from making magic tutorial DVD's to full on let it all out on YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/user/SankeyMagic
We are living in a wonderful world where instead of hidden secrets, we have open secrets.

By the way Al Schneider, I saw your videos about the big bang theory, very interesting !
Joe Brewer
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Quote:
On Feb 2, 2017, Al Schneider wrote:
But I have a question, is it killing magic?


I don't think it will kill magic, but I do think that this sort of behavior puts creators off sharing their ideas which is a sad thing. Personally I think the phrase "open secrets" is an oxymoron and the fact that Fearson's ideas have been openly and freely shared is pretty sad.

Each to their own though
SoyMilky
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Joe Brewer Quote:
"Personally I think the phrase "open secrets" is an oxymoron"

Hello Joe Brewer, if I may have a small discussion with you, how else do we call this ?
https://www.youtube.com/user/SankeyMagic
He IS a magician.
He appeared in the Pen and Teller show.
He made serious DVD's about magic.
He is going to be responsible for giving birth to a whole new generation of magicians compared to those who choose to stay at a corner, pad their own grumpy old shoulder and just "get angry" at change.
And here he is, everyone can see his tutorials without paying a dime, the secret of magic...and remember he says, to keep your secrets !
That is kind of a definition of open secret no ?

This reminds me of that time where magicians were angry that library became a thing because people can just go in and borrow a magic book and learn the craft without any barriers....wait a second...nobody is angry at that !...except for the grumble old guys of yesteryear right before the library is a thing...wait a second...grumpy old magicians are angry at YouTube now ? I think I saw a loop here.

I say share the secrets and let the spirit of magic spread far and wide.
The idea that magic is all about the secret is so two thousand and late.
Poof-Daddy
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2017, SoyMilky wrote:
YouTube doesn't hurt the world of magic, YouTube will bring about a new generation of Magicians with new never before seen ideas that would not have happened if the old way of doing things were to continue.


Although YouTube may spark an interest in someone to explore the art and maybe become a magician, it certainly will not make you one.

It depends on your definition of a magician. I do not think there are many "working pros" out there that learned magic from watching a bunch of YouTube videos. Granted, you can watch several episodes of "Scam School" and learn the "secret" to some "magic effects" or bar betchas. However, FREE YouTube videos really teach nothing about showmanship. 90% of the magic videos I have seen were fairly amateurish in presentation.

I won't even get into the debate over the unethical teaching of someone else's effect without permission because it has been discussed in length and several times before. Here is a reference on THIS TOPIC - http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......&forum=2

I fail to see where wanting to protect "The Art" (as opposed to hack mockeries of it) means that I (or the majority that share this opinion) are "Grumpy old magicians".
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ThSecret
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I'm not really a huge fan of youtube and magic, other than purely entertainment purposes. There is so much flawed about it, such as, I have yet to finder a magic video where there are not people in the description giving away the effect. Anyone can post a video, thus very young people (and old, as we saw in Teller's Shadow Rose case) will blatantly rip off effects/performers.

Again things like scam school are nice for entertainment purposes. But they show things like glass easing, fire walking, blockhead, things which I seem to be finding much more interest in the more I looking into them. While these videos may greatly entertaining, there are people who will go try this based on the 5minute video they just watched. None of these I would trying solely based on knowledge gained from a scam school video - In other words, without guidance from someone who knows what they are doing, and I mean really knows their stuff, I don't think I would try to eat glass by myself.

Personally, I do not believe magic should be taught through youtube, or exposed at all on youtube for that matter. The sort of "system" I am seeing is actually very ideal in my opinion. That which guards the secrets quite strongly, but openly guides those who show their seriousness in learning the art. Thus it keep the art alive, and helps those who show genuine interest in preforming, and now just "know the secret behind a trick".

@Poof, you pose a VERY good point there.... While tricks/methods are exposed, very rarely is presentation or showmanship explored in youtube videos of magic trick reveals.


On a side note; if anyone is interested in watching videos where they CAN learn more about presentation and performance, as well as effects and much more, look at some of the Penguin Live Lectures!
"A play does not take place on stage but in the minds of the spectators."
SoyMilky
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Quote:
On Feb 3, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
Although YouTube may spark an interest in someone to explore the art and maybe become a magician, it certainly will not make you one.

I agree that experience with actual performing is the key.

Quote:
On Feb 3, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
It depends on your definition of a magician. I do not think there are many "working pros" out there that learned magic from watching a bunch of YouTube videos.

YouTube is only how old again in comparison to other form of learning magic like books/libraries/people ?
It's like you hire a new secretary and 15 minutes after she sat on the chair, you complained that she have produced nothing of value compared to your previous one that have been working for you for 15 years.
The new generation of magicians produced by YouTube will not be on the scene for years, they are still very young and they will kick all our asses with their new tricks.
Someday they too will become grumpy old man and complain that BrainTube3000.com allows everyone to learn magic via brain transmission and in need of a Whaaaaaam-bulance.

Quote:
On Feb 3, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
Granted, you can watch several episodes of "Scam School" and learn the "secret" to some "magic effects" or bar betchas. However, FREE YouTube videos really teach nothing about showmanship.

Right, because only non-free videos teach about showmanship...

Quote:
On Feb 3, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
90% of the magic videos I have seen were fairly amateurish in presentation.

YouTube has 1 Billion active users each month, even a small percentage of them dedicated to magic would be a huge amount of people.
You have seen 90% of those people's performance ? You need to call James Randy to get your 1 million dollar prize because you must be REALLY psychic!
Go get your prize ! Show him you can watch 90% of YouTube magic videos within your lifetime and made your judgement that they are all amateurish !
I didn't realize I was talking to a psychic ! Remember to use your X-Men powers for good.

Quote:
On Feb 3, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I won't even get into the debate over the unethical teaching of someone else's effect without permission because it has been discussed in length and several times before.

Agree.

Quote:
On Feb 3, 2017, Poof-Daddy wrote:
I fail to see where wanting to protect "The Art" (as opposed to hack mockeries of it) means that I (or the majority that share this opinion) are "Grumpy old magicians".

What a grandiose statement to say that you are among those who are "protecting the art".
What a grandiose statement to say that you are the majority !
And by the way, the last time I check the "majority" used to believe the Earth was flat so what does a lot of people believing in something have to do with anything ? Are you hiding behind that word for protection ?

You know what happened to those magicians who refuse to share their magic when book finally became a thing to "protect the art" ?
Nobody alive now have seen those performance anymore, nobody can improve upon it anymore, nobody even heard of it anymore.
If it were up to those pretentious self praising white knights, magic would have died a long long time ago.
These people are so full of themselves, I am sure they even put a badge that says "Died protecting magic" before they die...

But then again, I could be completely wrong and YouTube should be burned to the ground as *some* magician wished it to be.
Notice I did not use the word majority, I am sure many sees it as a positive thing, that things are moving forward, as does all things in life.

Optimism, it is going to get better.
RitalDino
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I do not get the link some of you made between revealing on Youtube and Sankey, who designs magic tricks and explains them. If he went and exposed another magician's trick that would be a problem, but he doesn't (to my knowledge...)

Youtube imho doesn't hurt magic that much, but it is not the future! Yes, performance is key, not the secret. But magic is not juggling, secrets are important, aren't they? Biggest problem is not bad magic, but revealing another guy's work. Try and record your own version of any pop song and put it on Youtube, your account will receive a warning at the very least, and you might get sued! Examples of this are legion.

Just a thought.
SoyMilky
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I am absolutely in agreement with you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47SzFpWQiGc
9:16, this guy is cashing in on Lance Burton's magic and he is earning big bucks.
SoyMilky
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Here is another case in point of my theory:
"If you want to learn any trick, all you have to do is wait for some kid to do it, he will either show you how it is done or do it so badly you will know how it is done."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yASXJfp03e4
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Rings, strings & things » » Steve Fearson's Hook up in WIkipedia fully exposed, is Steve ok with that ? (5 Likes)
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