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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Red Mango by Mark Calabrese (9 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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jf4viva
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Quote:
On Feb 8, 2017, mikesmithmagic wrote:
My bad as far as the edit goes there Mark, guilty as charged. I edited after reading one of your earlier posts. Fooling the public and step backwards in method are 2 completely different things. You've made a clean trick dirty! As for your remark: "If you look at the method as a step back then you obviously don't perform enough to know what you're talking about.", that's one hell of an assumption on your behalf and a bad one at that.

In short, I critiqued your work, made an error in editing and receive a personal attack in return. Nice one Mark, very professional.



I don't know where in any of my post I personally attacked you. I critiqued your critique. I didn't call you dumb. I didn't call you stupid. I didn't call you ugly or even a bad magician. I made an assumption based on your critique of the effect.

The "clean" trick that I made "dirty" is a relative critique.

If you know how hector's works you know there is a "dirty" moment that requires "cleaning"

There are compromises we all must deal with when performing magic. We obviously can't REALLY read minds, but we can get as close to the real thing as possible or perform things that resemble the real thing as possible.

If I place down 3 cards, pick them and CLEANLY turn them over, to the spectator it looks exactly as it should.

If you're not happy with ending "dirty" any "worker" or professional will tell you, the clean up is worth the end result if he effect. That's why I made that assumption. When I first started I was worried about getting caught with gimmicks and secret stuff so I would stay away from anything that wasn't "start clean end clean" but when you get better and more confident, you can work with a gimmicked deck and not worry about getting caught because you have the tools to successfully clean up anything that you have to. Hector's ends with three single cards on the table that can be handed to the spectator. Why do people rub when they aren't being chased? Lack of experience, fear of getting caught etc etc. overthinking is, in my opinion a sign of lack of experience. If you are a seasoned performer and this just isn't your style, then I don't blame you. If you're a "purist" then I would tell you, you're missing out on some amazingly strong magic. If you ONLY use gimmicks I would also say you're putting yourself in a bad spot that one day will bite you in the butt.

My effect uses a mix of sleight of hand and gimmicks. What it accomplishes is a memory for the spectator of impossibility.

Screw the method. I worry about how things look to a spectator.

Show me a version of my trick that is as direct as mine and cleaner and I'll do that one instead. Promise.

My idols in magic Penn and Teller are the first to say this.

Worry about the trick and not the "clean" or "dirty" method.

Worry about what they remember.

Rant over.
Rizzo
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I like this. For what it is and the effect on the spectator ( that's all that matters right?) it's strong. As far as methods, listen- if you have a preferred handling and like one better, than use it. Most of what gets hyped here and elsewhere are different versions based off an original plot from years ago or a hundred years past . What changes is a simplified handling or perhaps a gimmick that was not available many years ago. But let's be clear here- there are very few new original effects. Original ideas yea effects no. A prime example is the sandwich plot, one I like very much. I have read and tried countless versions. Some fantastic. But the plot is the same so many years later. Mark's addition here to this plot, I personally will use simply for 2 reasons. The spectator impact and the simple handling. Funny thought;
After Super Bowl there were so many arm chair quarterbacks who said what should've been done different during that game and what they would have done. Reality is they are not in the game yet they all believe they would have and could have done better. Perhaps but how about get in the game 1st! Create an effect, certainly do the proper crediting then sit back and read -- I can only imagine how discouraging it will be.
Not looking for a debate here and not taking sides. Simply an observation. And yes I may be wrong with my thoughts. The thing is it's ok to debate and it be wrong. Respect and acceptance of the other party opinion and belief is what differentiates one though. Great day to all! Crazy snow in the NY area at the moment .
Nothing Personal-Strictly Business
martysh
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I don't have the trick ....yet...I usually get everything Mark puts out...
ok ...so I am one of his recent and biggest fans...ok I admit it...

but if you all were to look at his last posting two steps up you would see some very wise and subtle advice...what might appear very bold is really a wonderful expression on how we should approach choose and learn the material that would work best....I won't even go near the discussion on the trick's merits here but I am saying we are just lucky to hear him say what he does that should also serve us when we select and practice an effect to perform for our audience.

Marty
smikey12000
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I for one would be sad if the somewhat more personal verbiage on the topic(s)
would (as I imagine it has in the past )
disperse scatter and make the ingenious creators of magic
that visit the Café here now and then, from time to time
make them - Run for the hills ...
(as I detect from from the flavor of Mr Calabrese's recent post)
IMHO they visit here and precariously at times share with us
and I often feel privileged when they share with us their inner thoughts , their hows and why's
and come to the forefront to actually discuss their effects with such candidness.
Its always an opportunity to learn and understand the art of magic better.
They have put much research and thought into their effects and performances
and have worked until , in their minds , its as perfect as possible
and in the spectator's experience.
Different strokes for different folks of course
and respect for all that contribute to discussion
But I for one am always amazed and filled with excitement and intrigue
when Mark Calabrese performs and also when and how he teaches.
(Please don't attack me for for defending courtesy)
jamo425
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Jeez this is getting ridiculous. You either like the effect, or you don't. You want to buy it or you don't. Simple as that. I could've sworn I've said this a few times before, anyway...

I understand when something new comes out, we have questions about practicality, reset, refills, durability blah blah ect. I know I do.

But why people complaining about methods and who came up with what first is getting ridiculous. If it's not YOUR original method, and you felt personally victimized for someone having ripped off YOUR original published work, then why are people still complaining about this stuff?

I know of quite a few effect that were sleights or ideas taken from someone else, and put together. Quite a few effects have improved upon, or changed to make something else. So while we're complaining about all of this stuff, why don't we all boycott the material that uses a DL, or a cl****c !@#$e, or a pass? It seems like that's the route this place is headed..

I think people lose sight that this is meant to be a forum for magicians to come together and help each other. Not trying to knock someone else's hard work with their opinion which frankly most of the time, isn't even relevant. Let alone helpful in any way, shape or form.

Hope that you're taking all of the negativity with a grain of salt Mark. Personally, I love the effect, and I plan to buy it and use it. Thank you for the release, unlike some other people, I do appreciate you (or anyone else for that matter) putting in the work and sharing it with the magic community.

Hope that you realize that you do have some fans, and students of magic that are appreciative and supportive of your work, and would like nothing else but to learn and talk magic instead of sifting though a bunch of garbage when they come here.

Sorry for the rant, but there were some things I felt obligated to say. This isn't necessarily aimed at any particular person, but if you feel attacked or offended by this... it was probably aimed at you Smile

-Jameson
ianbarker
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I just bought this, and I love it.
As has been said, two methods are taught and I really like both of them.
I'm fairly confident that I will use this.

I think as a $9 download, it's great value for money.
There's a couple of things that you'll need, but they're both things that are surely in every magician's arsenal.
I'm glad Ellusionist wasn't tempted to jack up the price to include those two things that everyone likely already has in order to make it a shippable product.

Good one Mark.

Ian
MazingMandy
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Is there an uncut performance video anywhere as that would put to bed any differences between this as the previous tricks on this theme.
MazingMandy
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I can see Mark getting a bit stressed out with people comparing this to previous tricks.

The thing is, if I can already do a certain effect I need to be 100% sure an alternate handling of essentially the same effect has a concrete advantage over what I already do. I am not a secret hunter, I am a working magician and so it's important to me to know for certain if a new handling can replace the one I already perform. Muldoon Match gets great reactions and can involve many people at a table and I'm not prepared to buy another version of that just because the creator tells me it;'s better. *Show* me it's better and you might have a new customer.
jf4viva
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Quote:
On Feb 15, 2017, MazingMandy wrote:
I can see Mark getting a bit stressed out with people comparing this to previous tricks.

The thing is, if I can already do a certain effect I need to be 100% sure an alternate handling of essentially the same effect has a concrete advantage over what I already do. I am not a secret hunter, I am a working magician and so it's important to me to know for certain if a new handling can replace the one I already perform. Muldoon Match gets great reactions and can involve many people at a table and I'm not prepared to buy another version of that just because the creator tells me it;'s better. *Show* me it's better and you might have a new customer.


There is a link to an uncut video above
palmtreemagic!
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Got the video a few days ago.

Don't expect any mind-blowing new methods. The method is nice but nothing ground breaking. It's not impromptu although it looks impromptu.

However, the effect is VERY strong. I performed this 6 different times and the reactions were amazing.

To the spectators it looks like an impossible feat of mentalism from 2 shuffled decks.

It has a Lennart Green/Dani Daortiz feel to it where cards are hopelessly shuffled and random actions are done to reach an impossible climax.

It's an easy trick to do with minimal sleights. The key to this effect is presentation.

Will definitely be performing this more.
Unleashing the moment of astonishment, one impromptu situation at a time.
Oldfalguy
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I gotta say I appreciate the author of the effect chiming in on the subject.
Can't understand the bashing, what is gained by it? Nada
I enjoy magic and I am much lower than a rank amateur trying to learn but have little peaceful time to learn sleights well.
I know practice makes it all possible and I appreciate those who produce something for those of us that are just trying to get
where many of you can't remember ever being. Everyone has to start and learn somewhere.
Thank you Mark for Mango Red.
magiistino
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Can I do this trick without having to hide a gimmick of some kind in my hand or sleeve?
rnaviaux
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Great effect. Very strong. He nailed me with this when he lectured in NY recently. Nice to see it released as I was pretty tired at the lecture and it will be great to have a resource to go over the various nuances Mark has for this effect.
rnaviaux
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And ordered:)
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