We Remember The Magic Café We Remember
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Character Building (15 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
SilasJude
View Profile
New user
Buffalo
97 Posts

Profile of SilasJude
I've been putting a solid amount of work into building my "persona" and I'd like to know what you guys think of it.

I identify that I do not have supernatural skills, but I present effects within the context of specific parapsychological phenomena. Essentially I am openly acting the part of a psychic; putting Name and Place into the context of astral projection, NTPW becomes an aura reading demonstration.

Comments, ideas, concerns?
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2611 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
So you're labeling astral project as a natural skill?
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd
0pus
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
1739 Posts

Profile of 0pus
What's NTPW?
E.E.
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of E.E.
Quote:
On Feb 7, 2017, 0pus wrote:
What's NTPW?


N*d to pocket w*tch?
I shall see you on the other side.
0pus
View Profile
Inner circle
New Jersey
1739 Posts

Profile of 0pus
I am still not getting it. Does "N*d" mean 'nad, as in gonad? Then it sounds a little painful and not a parapsychological phenomenon at all.
January
View Profile
Veteran user
390 Posts

Profile of January
Quote:
On Feb 7, 2017, SilasJude wrote:
I identify that I do not have supernatural skills, but I present effects within the context of specific parapsychological phenomena. Essentially I am openly acting the part of a psychic; putting Name and Place into the context of astral projection, NTPW becomes an aura reading demonstration.

My only concern is that I don't quite understand what you mean here, so I guess your audiences might have a rough time of it too. What do you actually say to your audiences to communicate this? Do you pitch in the following way: "Astral projection and aura reading are bunk, false, and I'm about to prove it by recreating them!"

Or do you actually try to present astral projection and aura reading as bona fide, non-supernatural phenomena?
E.E.
View Profile
Inner circle
1516 Posts

Profile of E.E.
Quote:
On Feb 7, 2017, 0pus wrote:
I am still not getting it. Does "N*d" mean 'nad, as in gonad? Then it sounds a little painful and not a parapsychological phenomenon at all.


lol. You know, Looch's variation on Bob Cassidy's "The pocket w*tch premonition"...
I shall see you on the other side.
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2611 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
Quote:
On Feb 7, 2017, January wrote:
Quote:
On Feb 7, 2017, SilasJude wrote:
I identify that I do not have supernatural skills, but I present effects within the context of specific parapsychological phenomena. Essentially I am openly acting the part of a psychic; putting Name and Place into the context of astral projection, NTPW becomes an aura reading demonstration.

My only concern is that I don't quite understand what you mean here, so I guess your audiences might have a rough time of it too. What do you actually say to your audiences to communicate this? Do you pitch in the following way: "Astral projection and aura reading are bunk, false, and I'm about to prove it by recreating them!"

Or do you actually try to present astral projection and aura reading as bona fide, non-supernatural phenomena?


I had the same issue. He's saying he claims not to have supernatural powers then claims to do things that are generally claimed to be supernatural.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd
SilasJude
View Profile
New user
Buffalo
97 Posts

Profile of SilasJude
Hoping to clear up what I said before,

I mean to state that I do not have supernatural prowess and using a blend of psychological and physiological knowledge, I can recreate what psychics claim to do
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2611 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
So you're a debunker? I'm sorry I'm just still not clear on what you are intending to be here. It sounds like you're trying to be both at once.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd
MentalistCreationLab
View Profile
Inner circle
1527 Posts

Profile of MentalistCreationLab
Quote:
On Feb 7, 2017, SilasJude wrote:
Hoping to clear up what I said before,

I mean to state that I do not have supernatural prowess and using a blend of psychological and physiological knowledge, I can recreate what psychics claim to do
and
Quote:
I identify that I do not have supernatural skills, but I present effects within the context of specific parapsychological phenomena.


I do not know what you're trying to say and you said it twice in two different ways. First I am heading to do a workshop in Las Vegas this weekend which there are a few tickets available which do not cost anything do to some sponsor tickets which were donated so if you near the Vegas area you may want to send the Pure Psi workshop this weekend. That goes for the rest of you as well just stop by the Top Hat and Wand Magic Shop in Las Vegas(its in the same location as Denny and Lee Las Vegas and Las Vegas Pro Magic so it should not be to hard to find).

Allow me to make this clear and as kind as possible.

So first we need to look at not having Supernatural powers -okay, I can understand that but what I do not get and never have is why anyone would tell the audience they are using to accomplish the effect or affect is a blend of psychological and physiological knowledge. Where is the mystery in that? Since you already told them how you did it. What are you going to reveal the actually method you used and show them your swami and try to fool them by letting them in on the joke that no psychological method was used and that was the real footer. Why would you tell them (the audience) anything in regards to methodology your using. Doing that kills any reason they may want to see your show and the mystery involved in your show.

Now lets take a moment to examine "I can recreate what psychics claim to do" In this context, your construct is not having Supernatural powers, and what you're using is a blend of psychological and physiological knowledge to recreate what psychics claim to do also does not have any mystery to it nor does it really make any sense. Plus it's not even what your doing. So your trying not to lie to your audience but then you're really just lying to them anyway so the whole statement to the approach is pointless. Would be far easier to walk out and say Hi everyone I'm psychic and I speak with the dead at the very least it would be clear as to what you do and that would be easier for the audience to understand. Even if they think its BS you have a better chance of entertaining them then using big words that sound fancy that do not mean anything in this context.

Lets also look at the terms for a moment so the above statement that I am making so this is a bit more clear psychological- of, affecting, or arising in the mind; related to the mental and emotional state of a person. How does this have anything to do with recreating what a psychic can do? I will move on as my point will become more clear Parapsychology is a field of study concerned with the investigation of paranormal and psychic phenomena which include telepathy, precognition, clairvoyance, psychokinesis, near-death experiences, reincarnation, apparitional experiences, and other paranormal claims. It is often identified as pseudoscience. Originally the term implied the new psychology or alternative study of the mind and in regards to para preception plus J.B. Rhine had several different approaches to this terminology some of which where from his early days at Duke. All development in regards to the title parapsychology is very interesting and worth the extra time to research this use of terminology further as it has changed many times since its inception.

First parapsychology has to do with investigation of paranormal and psychic phenomena. Just because you can do what a psychic can does not imply anything and does not imply any form of investigation. Furthermore you're not conducting an investigation your since you have made up you mind as to what psychics do and how they do it. This is called contempt prior to investigation which is how your audience may see your show. You say you're demonstrating methods of repetition by another means which is not paranormal nor is it investigative and worst of all it's not even interesting enough to put before an audience in my opinion. In other words "Has No Mystery" and no mystery means no entertainment value. Plus using big words is okay if your seeking to conundrum your audience(conundrum meaning a confusing and difficult problem or question or a question asked for amusement, typically one with a pun in its answer; a riddle.)

Now let's take a step back in time many decades ago to something Joseph Dunninger once stated "no one want's to see a fake psychic". While that statement is has been somewhat complicated over the years since it was first brought forth it still holds some truth. Now let's look at this problem form another prospective and one of claimers and disclaimers. Not having Supernatural powers is a claim the problem with all claims is that they tend to lend themselves to the opposite meaning when followed by any demonstration involving psychological and physiological knowledge used as a base method when in fact your not using psychological and physiological knowledge as your methodology. This will give way to many problems and scrutiny form the audience. Are you really looking to get busted even when you tell the audience your using non psychic or false methods to achieve something that by your own wording implies it's real. See my point.

First I know others have done this same thing and it made little or no sense when they did it either. Plus the whole concept and construct is unoriginal not to mention kinda of boring, point less and lacks interest.

So you have three choices and I going to recommend you try all three.

One do it your original way. Your audience may like it. My audiences wont.

Tell the your psychic and play it as real. This approach is a real education and one that will be unique for each performer.

The last construct is tell them none of the above and just do the effect. This is a great way to see if an effect or an approach to an effect is worth its salt.

Each of these three approaches will teach you something new and will give you a base foundation to build upon.

One last thing just because you think you can repeat what a psychic can do - does not mean anything. Mainly because you really do not have any idea what a psychic even does.

I do not mean any of the above to be harsh sounding as that is not my point but my point is think about what you are saying to the audience and be clear in the words you use. Best to avoid words where the meaning does not mean what you're implying it to mean. Better to have the context of the word or phrase actually match the construct of what your trying to do. Remember "no one wants to see a fake psychic. Its far better to leave the audience with a seance of Mavenism. Mavenism means "you be the judge to if what you have seen is real or not?" Actually if I was just starting out in mentalism the Mavenism approach may be the way to approach this thing known as mentalism. Yes its all very true that others before Max Maven used this you be the judge approach but Dunningerism, Amrstrongism, Cassidyism, Osterlindism just does not have the same vocal tone as Mavenism. Plus using terms like Amrstrongism could relate to a psychological forcing approach and may be a bit confusing as to what one is speaking of in this context.

Anyway long drive to the airport got to run. Hope to see some of you in Vegas as I will be there most of the week. Remember if you want to hit the workshop we have a total of five speakers and I sure you find something of use plus it wont cost you to attend thanks to some out of the country sponsors who have given there seats to the attendees. Which is much appreciated and I offer my thanks to each of you. Also seating is limited so get your seat before they are all gone. Plus from what I hear the new magic shop has been remolded and has a comprehensive full stock. Cannot wait to see the shop myself.
SilasJude
View Profile
New user
Buffalo
97 Posts

Profile of SilasJude
MentalistCreationLab,

I am extremely grateful for your reply, this is the constructive criticism that makes the Café wonderful. I unfortunately will not be able to attend the workshop as I live across the country, but I appreciate the invitation none the less.

With regards to your critique, it seems like I have a good amount more work to do in my character development. I posted my idea here because I knew it was not polished, but I wasn't sure where to go with it. My biggest issue though, is framing effects and patter with Mavenism in mind. How do you go about building theater and tension into your act when you are intentionally being vague about what you are capable of? OR, does the fact that you are being vague open up opportunities that would otherwise be closed off?

I suppose you inject a double dose of mystery if you raise the questions of both "is he psychic" and "if hes not, then how is this possible".

As I stated before, I am just having trouble developing patter and framing of effects without a foundation of character.
WitchDocChris
View Profile
Inner circle
York, PA
2611 Posts

Profile of WitchDocChris
Great post as always MentalistCreationLab.

SilasJude - What is your character? Before you even think about what you'll be performing, what is the character?

My character is a sort of spiritual scientist/explorer. He's fascinated by stories of the unexplained, and he tries to figure out how it works. So, in a way I am recreating things, but I am doing it from the perspective of someone who's trying to find a possible truth of it. Not debunking, but exploring. In these explorations he has picked up some pretty odd knowledge and a particular set of skills Smile

I don't ever claim to be psychic. I don't ever claim not to be psychic. I don't really make a claim beyond that I have been fascinated by this stuff and made some discoveries.
Christopher
Witch Doctor

Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4
Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd
Philemon Vanderbeck
View Profile
Inner circle
Seattle, WA
4484 Posts

Profile of Philemon Vanderbeck
This is how I approached my persona:

"Philemon was reincarnated on 1965 August 30 at 12:25 A.M. in Greenock, Scotland. Obsessed with mathematics since he was a child, he believes that proper understanding of the underlying principles of the Universe allows him to penetrate the veil of the future and garner insight into the mysteries of space, time, energy, mind, and spirit."

Everything I perform is based on this premise.
Professor Philemon Vanderbeck
That Creepy Magician
"I use my sixth sense to create the illusion of possessing the other five."
SilasJude
View Profile
New user
Buffalo
97 Posts

Profile of SilasJude
A character that I have been working on for a while is that of an empath. I state that I cannot read minds so much as I can read emotions, desires, wishes, and fears.

My opener was a card selection and using emotional cueing to gather the identity of the card.
jstreiff
View Profile
Special user
702 Posts

Profile of jstreiff
Richard Osterlind has advised to make no claims, just do it. Lee Earle, Larry Becker and Bob Cassidy all concur. But keep in mind Annemann's and Osterlind's advice: if your character doesn't believe in what he or she is demonstrating neither will your audience. The most powerful 'prop' we have is our audience and their impressions. It is best, IMO, to allow the audience to draw their own conclusions; the stories they tell themselves will always be more powerful than any we tell.
John
SilasJude
View Profile
New user
Buffalo
97 Posts

Profile of SilasJude
Jstrieff,

I agree that letting the audience form their own idea of what you're doing is the most powerful effect, but to that end, how do you frame your effect and develop compelling patter?
RexDeash
View Profile
New user
78 Posts

Profile of RexDeash
Quote:
On Feb 8, 2017, SilasJude wrote:
Jstrieff,

I agree that letting the audience form their own idea of what you're doing is the most powerful effect, but to that end, how do you frame your effect and develop compelling patter?


Well, as Jstrieff mentioned, watch Richard's performances on his DVD sets and see how he does it. It is a lesson unto itself.

Thanks,
Rex
January
View Profile
Veteran user
390 Posts

Profile of January
Quote:
On Feb 8, 2017, SilasJude wrote:
I suppose you inject a double dose of mystery if you raise the questions of both "is he psychic" and "if hes not, then how is this possible".

As I stated before, I am just having trouble developing patter and framing of effects without a foundation of character.


This is something I've struggled with a bit lately, and I realized that the implicit assumption here is that our patter has to be about how we accomplish what we are doing. That is simply wrong. It seems that mentalists (more than magicians) struggle with the idea that their patter needs to reveal, or seemingly reveal their methods. Though a little of this may be helpful, this idea ultimately leads to patter that is focused on pseudo-method, and eventually becomes overkill, and even becomes less believable than the supernatural explanation. For example, if pushed far enough, the common NLP explanation eventually becomes more laughable than claiming that one has supernatural powers.

I've come to the conclusion that the patter should more establish context rather than pseudo-method. What is the significance of the info you are revealing? What's its history? If you did have such an ability, why would we care?

At the first of your show, you could merely have a one-sentence disclaimer: "I don't claim to have any supernatural abilities, but I have put an enormous amount of work into what I'm going to show you tonight." I'm not sure if your desire to give such a disclaimer comes from qualms of conscience, or from a desire to be believable, but either way, you're covered.

So, for example, remote viewing is an unfamiliar concept to some people. You could give them a quick overview of its history, the Stargate Project, etc. Then you could say, "I became obsessed with this idea--could I really view something that I hadn't seen with my physical eyes? I devoted years of my life to study, and if we're lucky, I'll be able to demonstrate this for you tonight." Again, if it's from qualms of conscience, then you are covered because I'm assuming you have devoted years of study to mentalism. If it's believability, you're not asking them to believe anything because you're not tipping your method. You're just saying, "This is so cool, wonderful, and amazing!"


What it eventually comes down to is this: if your patter is mainly about your method, unless you are ACTUALLY exposing mentalism effects by revealing their methods--then you are asking your audience to believe a false claim, and the skeptics among them probably won't buy it. Furthermore, the focus of your performance starts to be about proving that claim, instead of being about showing your audience some amazing things--bringing them into a state of wonder. Ultimately, there is no one pseudo-method that's going to convince everyone in your audience. So don't make the focus of your performance convincing your audience of your supposed abilities. If that is the focus, then it will take away from the performance itself, and the skeptics will probably remained unconvinced.

Whatever your claim is, I suggest your show and patter not principally be about convincing your audience of a claim, but more a sense of, "I think this is so amazing, and I want to share it with you, because I think you'll enjoy it just as much as I do."

If you successfully communicate that, even the skeptics will say, "Wow. I don't know how that guy did what he did, but he was amazing."
Raum
View Profile
Loyal user
228 Posts

Profile of Raum
I very like Luke Jermay opinion on this. I recomend you to listen to Magicican Podcast, where he talks about his character and disclaimers.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Penny for your thoughts » » Character Building (15 Likes)
 Go to page 1~2~3 [Next]
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.27 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL