|
|
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] | ||||||||||
Bohh Regular user Northeast Ohio 162 Posts |
Thanks for the post Glenn. It's very helpful to me.
|
|||||||||
abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
Glenn great post.
Niko is started working as a close up magician in restaurants when I was 17 and got into pubs and clubs at 19. I don't think the problem is can you do magic that will entertain the guests. (it is important though) The question is can you take rejection if you are told "No thank you" and can you negotiate a good deal for yourself. Read Herb Cohen's books on negotiating. You can negotiate anything and Negotiate this and then go get a job that PAYS YOU WELL. I absolutely agree with Glenn saying give to get but don't undersell yourself. You need to be sure that you can Network well and that comes from reading books on how to do it and practise. When you do get a paying show CHARGE. You can always negotiate downwards but you need to know how to do it and still make the money you wanted to in the beginning. You don't have to be old to do that. Mozart was 5 and trust me the piano is a lot more difficult than magic or maybe I just suck at playing the piano. My advice would be to go out and give it a shot right now. If you are confident about your show do it right now. |
|||||||||
bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
Great post abc...
If you have a restaurant go out and get another one at a higher fee... The first restaurant I got was Houdini's pub I think I got $5.00 an hour there. Then I got another place and charged them $25.00 a night. Then I got another place on another day and I charged them $50,00 a night. Then I got another place and it was a late night gig and I charged them $50.00 an hour. Get lots of places at different prices if you like. When I moved to St Louis I foud a place and just worked for tips. I did this because I needed to get a start in a new city. Then I found a place for $25.00 a night. Then I got another place for $50.00 a night then I found another place for $50.00 an hour. Of course I wasn't working for free in the first place. When I told them I might leave they offered me $75.00 an hour and I took it. Sometimes you have to give to get... But when I start working cold in a new restaurant and I have not been working for a while I get a first restaurant at a low fee. For me... I find it easier to get mroe jobs when you have a job. Then I have a successful track record that I can boast about to the owner or manager of the next restaurant I am going after. Then I move on to more restaurants and keep selling and rasing my fee... Until I am working four different places at very good fees. At least that is the way I used to do it. I do hypnosis shows now but restaurants can give you a nice steady income. It is also good to have more than one... Because if you lose one the inclome loss is small. And then you have the opportunity to go out and get another one at perhaps a higher fee... In the old days my work week was mon thru thursday and the weekend was for shows... And yes you can make a good living and have a lot of fun doing it! Just get out there and do it. If they say no go to another place accross the street or down the block! Some will say no and that is part of it... Some will say yes... I hope this helps, Glenn Bishop
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
|||||||||
Niko Special user England 599 Posts |
Wow, $50.00 an hour!!! You must be good, Glenn! Do you live in St. Louis?
-Nik
When you do something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
|
|||||||||
bishthemagish Inner circle 6013 Posts |
The point is that I didn't start the work ladder at $50.00 an hour. This may sound silly but I used to have a chart that I would call my restaurant work ladder. I draw a ladder with ladder steps and write the restaurants in starting at the bottom and going to the top.
I work the bottom step starting a free and then I move up the ladder with each step a new restaurant at a higher fee... The top of the ladder of course at the end of the year was filled with four restaurants at the higest fees... Next year a new ladder and I continue. The sky is the limmet with how much money you want to make. Set your own rules and then get out there and sell - sell - sell! Being good is only a point of view in which we judge ourselves, others, and how our audiences judges us... In my oppinion - were all good at magic. Now if you want to make money - get out there and sell - sell - sell! I hope this helps... Glenn Bishop
Glenn Bishop Cardician
Producer of the DVD Punch Deal Pro Publisher of Glenn Bishop's Ace Cutting And Block Transfer Triumphs |
|||||||||
Chrystal Inner circle Canada/France 1552 Posts |
Even Donald Trump will tell you that it's not about the money (although some may think so) it's about loving what you do and the passion and enthusiasm with follow.
I performed full time for 5 years and it's not like regular employment with a regular paycheck. Some months are slower than others, like January, for example. Suprisingly, one year I had 17 shows booked for that month so again you just never know. I've made great money when performing at a world class resort to a much smaller amount when performing at a birthday party. You can't start the big shows without having paid your dues with the smaller shows. It takes time perseverence and desire. Magic is like any other business and if you seriously consider going into it full time you MUST run it like a business. You have to be knowledgable about marketing, promotions,taxes,and a business plan is a good thing to have - especially if dealing with banks if you desire to expand. There is nothing wrong with trying to go full time and I would encourage those that have the desire to "Just Do It", but be prepared for the ups and downs of your income level. At the moment ,I work p/t at a day job and still manage to perform 175 shows a year..think it averages out to 3-4 shows per week, but again this always varies. I've had as many as 17 shows per month to a mere 2. The busiest months are June, July, Aug ( the corporate parties and picnics) and December ( the Christmas parties). This depends of course what kind of magic you are performing, as I'm a family entertainer and found those are the months I am booked the most frequently. I also do a lot of civic events and most festivals are held in the summer or Christmas as with the stage shows I do for an Arts Council. Best of luck with your dream and if you're serious about it ...I'd just tell you to go for it!!! Only two things will happen you will either see that's it's not what you expected or want: or you will want to pursue it and have the drive and energy to follow your goal. C |
|||||||||
Marshall Thornside Inner circle chicago 2016 Posts |
All I can I really think up is that
making a living as a full-time magician is sooo drastically different from 20 years ago.
you will remember my name
World's Youngest Illusionista 7th greatest pianist in the world Go Red For Women and Stroke Ambassador www.mai-ling.net |
|||||||||
abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
I don't want to chamge the subject here but I also sugest you read some of Robert Kiyosaki's materail (the Rich Dad series)
The point is not whether you can make a living being a full time magician or any other job you choose. Can you put together a financial plan that can get you set up for tough times or that matter for life. Making money in any profession is not dificult it is what you do with the money that is important. There will always be tough times and there will be good times and you need to plan ahead. Practise running a business and investing as much as you practise magic and then in 10 to 15 years you wouldnt have to wonder about can you make a living because you will be paid for work that you have already done. The business aspect is more important than the magic. Sorry if that offends anybody. If you do a 10 minute close up routine and go from table to table every night it is monotonous but fun. Investing and running a business is the same. The same "sleights" or "moves" every day until you are well versed and running your own business or being a full time magician is like eating. You don't even have to think about it. The reason I prefer restaurant and club work is as Glenn says it is a steady Cash Flow every week every month. Cash flow is pretty important if you are going to go full time and in my opinion the sooner you can diversify your income the better. I hope this makes sense even though it may be a little of the point. |
|||||||||
francisco Loyal user Coolest guy in the café 267 Posts |
I was just wondering, Glenn/bishthemagish, do you work as a full time magician? And do you get paid per word you write? lol jokes - btw Glenn, very gud n helpful posts thanx
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'
[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism] |
|||||||||
abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
I don't want to chamge the subject here but I also sugest you read some of Robert Kiyosaki's materail (the Rich Dad series)
The point is not whether you can make a living being a full time magician or any other job you choose. Can you put together a financial plan that can get you set up for tough times or that matter for life. Making money in any profession is not dificult it is what you do with the money that is important. There will always be tough times and there will be good times and you need to plan ahead. Practise running a business and investing as much as you practise magic and then in 10 to 15 years you wouldnt have to wonder about can you make a living because you will be paid for work that you have already done. The business aspect is more important than the magic. Sorry if that offends anybody. If you do a 10 minute close up routine and go from table to table every night it is monotonous but fun. Investing and running a business is the same. The same "sleights" or "moves" every day until you are well versed and running your own business or being a full time magician is like eating. You don't even have to think about it. The reason I prefer restaurant and club work is as Glenn says it is a steady Cash Flow every week every month. Cash flow is pretty important if you are going to go full time and in my opinion the sooner you can diversify your income the better. I hope this makes sense even though it may be a little of the point. |
|||||||||
francisco Loyal user Coolest guy in the café 267 Posts |
'If you do a 10 minute close up routine and go from table to table every night it is monotonous but fun'
I believe that monotonous means eitherspeaking in the same or an unvarying tone, or Tediously repetitious or lacking in variety, wearisome, boring. Therefore surely it shouldnt be fun!? The closest word I can think of to monotonous that you could have meant would be humorous?
'When you steal one trick, they call it plagiarism. When you steal many - they call it research.'
[Corinda, 13 steps to mentalism] |
|||||||||
magicocacau New user Brazil 10 Posts |
We´ve got so many good answer in this topic... Copngratulation all!! Of course is possible to get some money work as a pro magician full time.
When I say full time I mean FULL TIME. U have to work in one good web site, you have to practice at least 6/8 hours a day, you have to study a lot, and so much more. Be a pro magicians is not be at home wainting for someone call us and book a show. We have to move on it!!! And YES! I can live working as a magician full time Warm regards Cacau
Now you see it, Now you don't
|
|||||||||
Niko Special user England 599 Posts |
Quote:
On 2004-04-18 15:24, francisco wrote: Look does it really matter? Everyone knows what it means and we're not here to criticise grammar, but discuss magic. -Nik
When you do something right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
|
|||||||||
abc Inner circle South African in Taiwan 1081 Posts |
LOL
The point I am trying to make is that you do the same routine over and over and over with little if any variety in your preparation, Patter or performance. Therefor not speaking in the same tone but rather lack of variety. Investing and running a successful business is the same. It is following basic systematic principles over and over wothout much or any variety until you reach your goal. Monotonous can be humorous though. You should listen to some british comedy. Or you could try Steven Wright. Funny stuff |
|||||||||
Enigmo Loyal user 215 Posts |
Niko asks : "can I make a decent living out of it without another job ?"
the answer is obvously yes. Some make a decent living out of it without another job... But a lot more do not... I'll just say that: There is a lot of exaggeration in magic. Don't believe everything you hear from people. You don't know me but thrust me; if a magician tells you he makes $X, chances are you should divide that number by 4 to get the real figure... It's tempting to think that if you make $300 for a one hours show that you end up making $300/hour clearly making this more attractive than a $40/hour regular job. But how many $300 shows/week will you perform? In a 6 million people territory and of the dozens of supposedly successful magician living in that territory, my country's revenue agency has published that only 12 magicians report enough revenues to put them above the poverty line. My advice is this: You are 16; Don't drop school to start a career in magic. My suggestion is to learn stuff at school that might help you in magic but might open other doors : Marketing, Engineering, English, Administration, etc... There are a number of success stories but a lot more pathetic ones; If you don't believe me, do your own research. Just look around at the next magic convention. My advice to you is: Don't embark on that adventure; get out while you can! To summarize: One of two things have happened while you read this post: 1) I have successfully made you reconsider you plan of turning pro. If so, that just proved you don't have what it takes to succeed in this. 2) You think I am full of it... Good, you have achieved the first step to success: Ignore any advice anyone gives you. Find your own path to success. By the way, one last piece of advice: Don't become a professional magician. Jean-Luc Dupont |
|||||||||
MattWayne Special user Manhattan, NY | Studio City, CA 624 Posts |
I totally disagree with Enigmos post. I actually found it disturbing and a tad bit cold. So, this is how magicians encourage now? Let me be the first to give you a, "Bravo Brava!" Maybe that's just the way I perceived it though.
As a true working magician I can tell you that it IS possible. I am one of those 'workers of magic' that you never hear about, but I'm out there six days a week doing what I try so very hard to do best- magic. It's not just a decent living- it's one step above it. Forget all the negative 'non success stories' out there- it's all up to how much YOU want it. Noone is going to show you the way. Noone showed me the way and said, 'ok this is the door you open to meet this person for this job, or this is the way this guy went- so it's gotta work for you.' No, I chose a path that noone chose before. USO work. Contracted USO work. I was the one who had to make the calls- they sure as heck didn't call me! I was the one who sent them my promotional material. Ha- they didn't ask me for it! And I was the one who is making the three year commitment to provide magical entertainment to troops, families, and locals overseas in Japan/Europe/and Asia. It IS possible. $300 for an hour- yeah heck it is great! If you take the time like most of us to market yourself and have patience---> YOU WILL get more one hour shows a day. I've gotten up to three shows a day. Working magician friends on mine- do the same exact thing!!! Don't undermine or underestimate performing magic for a living. That's a discouragement to others, and belittling to magic in my opinion. Another thing- age has nothing to do with it. Don't underestimate yourself, and please don't contend to listen to those who gave up too early. Those who say age plays a factor- I will go out on a limb here and formally say- you're wrong. In getting shows- you're wrong. Could it possibly hinder you from getting a job- yes. BUT it's all on how you present yourself. Well anyway that's my rambling... best regards, Matt Tomasko
Matt Wayne
The Celebrity Magicianâ„¢ www.CelebrityMagician.com / youtube.com/celebritymagician / twitter.com/RealMattWayne / Facebook.com/CelebrityMagician Creator of, 'Got a Light?' and others. Spokesperson behind, TouchTricks |
|||||||||
Enigmo Loyal user 215 Posts |
TomaskoMagic says : "I totally disagree with Enigmos post."
Tomasko Magic says : "As a true working magician I can tell you that it IS possible. " In my post the first thing I said is : "Some make a decent living out of it without another job... " Tomasko Magic says : " Noone is going to show you the way." In my post, I wrote : " Find your own path to success. " It would appear you do not totally disagree with my post... You found my post disturbing and a bit tad cold. While this was not necessarily my intent, if that's the case, I am glad it is. Before Niko embarks on such a path, he needs to do the proper business case for HIS market; competitive analysis, customer research, etc... To do that, you need to be cold and you need to be prepared to be disturbed. Tomasko says: "So, this is how magicians encourage now? Let me be the first to give you a, "Bravo Brava!" Was that necessary? There is no need to mock someone who might have a different point of view than your own. Niko wasn't asking for encouragement; He is trying to uncover the reality of magicians lifestyles. I respect your point of view and I am glad you are achieving the success you wish for yourself; I have a slightly different point of view based on experience of my own but also by taking a cold look at other "successful" magicians. By the way, don't make the mistake of automatically concluding that my point of view results from "giving up too early" or failing as a magician. If people are interested I'll write a few anecdotes I have experienced and observations I have made of other successful magicians... Tomasko also add :"Another thing- age has nothing to do with it.". I assume this is not in reference to my post since the only time I mentionned age was in a different context. My opinion? Age has nothing to with being successful but it does play a part in the types of shows you can get and should come into play while creating your business plan. There are certain shows that are more difficult to get at any age point. Selling yourself for a tradeshow gig for a fortune500 company at 16 could be a greater challenge than when you're 35 with an apparent solid career behind you. Touring army bases at 25 is physically easier than doing it at 60... J-L |
|||||||||
Kent Wong Inner circle Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 2458 Posts |
I think if you were to really compare apples to apples, you would need to know what full time wage you could be making if you were not performing magic on a regular basis. That would be the opportunity cost of pursuing magic full time.
Conservatively, let's assume you could make $10/hour on a 40 hour work week. that would be $400.00 per week or $20,800.00 per year. Now let's assume that you will start out performing smaller gigs and earning your dues at about $150.00 per show. To make the same amount of money that you would realize if you were working at that full time job, you would need to perform 139 shows each year. But that's not the real number. If you work for someone else, you don't have to pay for your own advertising, equipment, office supplies, etc. When performing full-time, these are expenses that you have to incur and the money comes out of the bottom line. Let's say this amounts to 30% of your revenues. This means you have to perform 30% more shows in order to gross the same amount that you would have made (before taxes) at a regular full time job. That amounts to a approximate total of 180 shows per year. The other thing to realize is that your approach to magic will shift. You won't have a lot of time to visit the magic shops and online forums. You won't have a lot of time to test out the latest trick to hit the market. You'll be too busy marketing the daylights out of your business and performing like crazy just to make ends meet. Depressing? Maybe, but it is doable. The key thing to remember is that, even with a lot of talent and some very well structured, entertaining shows, it will not be easy at first. Over time, that $150.00 per show may increase and you could be earning significantly more money, but that will take a lot of time and perseverance. I put myself through university performing magic and, even today, I perform close to 200 shows per year on a part-time professional basis. Balancing this with my day job and family life is difficult, but if you have a passion for both the art of magic and the business of magic, it really isn't a chore. These days, I'm supplementing my day job with magic income of aproximately $30,000.00 per year. It's not easy, but you can do it. Kent
"Believing is Seeing"
<BR>______________________ <BR> <BR>www.kentwongmagic.com |
|||||||||
Enigmo Loyal user 215 Posts |
Magicman!
Good post. I might debate whether $150/show when you're paying your dues is a reasonable assumption but I guess it depends of your market. In any case, I fully agree with the logic in your post. With a family and a full time job, 200 shows a year is quite an accomplishment. Very, very difficult to do. For me, the key point in your post is that, in your case, you were doing magic to support your studies and are now doing it to supplement your income. Magic is not your primary mean of support. This is exactly what I meant when I wrote :"My advice is this: You are 16; Don't drop school to start a career in magic. My suggestion is to learn stuff at school that might help you in magic but might open other doors : Marketing, Engineering, English, Administration, etc... ". Magic can really help your life but I would advise not to put all your eggs in one egg bag. Don't make the mistake of dropping everything at 16 to become a full-time magician. I personally know a very talented and very intelligent 17 year old magician who flunked his school year because he was focussing on magic. I have no idea what he's doing right now but I would be extremely surprised if he is a "success" right now. I think it's sad... |
|||||||||
calamari Elite user The San Francisco Bay Area 429 Posts |
One other consideration is benifits, full time magicians don't get paid benifits of any kind.
that means no paid vacations, no medical benifits, no dental, no holiday pay etc... so add about 35 to 50% more required earnings to meet this payment by a regular job. if anyone thinks my estimates are high please try getting health insurance on your own, I think it is a very conservative estimate. I would love to be a full time professional magician but my day job is just to valuable to me and my family. I would have to do 2 shows a day everyday of the year at $250.00 a show just to match my current salary (I split show money with a partner) and that does not include benifits. I just cant see myself suffering for my art (I like my comforts) ie medical coverage. also if you think Benifits are not important ... oh no one could be that stupid. the example given of about $20,000.00 per year above I know is just an example but please remember that is not a good living, I cant imagine living comfortably here in the bay area on less than $60,000 a year that's 240 shows at $250 not including benifits. (BTW my lowest priced show is $300 but not everyone or every area could support that price) so my advise would be (for what it's worth) do the math, how much do you need to earn to be comfortable, how much do benifits cost in your area, what do other magicians in your area typically charge for shows or at resturaunts, factor in all the costs involved with your shows (marketing, consumables(things that get used up in your show) phone costs, all your business expenses... and if you still want to do it, marry a rich old woman (LOL) Nikko, it can be done, it has been done, and you could be the next to do it just remember it is not easy(nothing worthwhile is) JMTCW Rich
"I came, I saw, SHE conquered." (The original Latin seems to have been garbled.)
|
|||||||||
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Full-time Magicians - Do they make a decent living? (0 Likes) | ||||||||||
Go to page [Previous] 1~2~3~4 [Next] |
[ Top of Page ] |
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2024 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved. This page was created in 0.08 seconds requiring 5 database queries. |
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic. > Privacy Statement < |