Randy,

You are most welcome. Thank you for the kind words. I hope what you have read has inspired you and has given you some ideas, suggestions and tips on how you can get into this great market and suceed at it.

I am surprised you read the entire thread. Never in my wildest imagination did I think it would ever get this long. BUT, there have been a lot of great people with great questions and it has grown to be a really nice collection of information that can help anyone.

Great that you are aiming for a festival for strolling style magic. Festivals love this form of magic because:
- they do not have to supply a stage for you
- you are pretty much self- contained
- You can go and work the areas and lines and crowds where THEY feel it is most needed
- It frees up there main stages so they can book more entertainment
- They can use you to make announcements as you stroll to get people to know about other various events going on.

So as you can see, strolling magic or entertainment is big for festivals because you can meet the direct needs of the festival and solve those needs with solutions they can relate to. It becomes a win-win situation indeed.

Keep in mind that you can also get in to do stage shows. I usuallly offer 2 30-min shows that are different and do them as a day rate. I offer strolling magic between the shows at an additional cost.

For now, USE what you know and do strolling magic. The experience at the festivals will teach you a lot and through this, you can add in larger and bigger parlor style magic as you go along. The experience of just doping the festival will gain you so much insight as to what goes on at the festivals, how they work and what entertainment goes over the best.

When working festivals as strolling magician, never get in as tips. It just does not work well. The people half the time are intersted in mainly food and they often feel that the entertainment (you) have been hired by the festival and so they do not tip. Get in as a paid performer. This ia guarenteed money for a certain time. Do it as an hourly rate and it works well.

You can offer so much more then just more entertainment. As you read before, you must get in the frame of mind that festivals have problems that need solving. If you can offer solutions to these problems, then your value increases in their mind as well.

Hope this helps. Please feel free to ask any questions you may like.

Kyle

Randy, Brother Paul West travels all over working festivals and fairs doing "street shows." I think this is what you have in mind. He doesn't use a stage but acts like a busker and draws the crowds into a circle and does his show. He, like Kyle and several others, gets paid by the festival and is a draw to the crowds. Check his site at
http://www.brotherpaulmagic.com/
He is an interesting character, great magician and contributes to the "sidewalk shuffle" forum here at the Café.

Peter

The idea though is to never just show up at a festival and start doing street magic etc. That is one way to get the festival committee angry and against you. Always try and get in as a paid entertainer. The benefits of doing it this way are great and you are guarenteed income because you are providing a direct service to the festival and solving some of the problems they are seeking answers for.

Starting out this way, is a great method for learning about festivals, getting your feet wet, learnning aboiut crowds at festivals and gaining a lot of experience.

Kyle

Excellent advice - I'll keep you all informed of what happens with this.

(I had thought about the idea of saying I could make announcements for them but then dismissed it as too silly to bring up. That is why this thread is easily the most important thread on the entire Café.)


Sincerely,

Randy

Randy,

Not sure if it is the most important thread, but I am just glad it is helping people who want to work this market. Always keep in mind that the more solutions you can provide to the festival you are marketing too, the better and greater your value becomes to them. You aill not be seen as just a mere product and will be seen as a solutions provider. They will keep coming to you again and again because you can solve their problems.

All festivals have many problems that must be solved for the festival to run smoothly, if your marketing can tiwe into these problems, then you will certainly get their attention. the key here is to learn what these problems are that they often are faced with each year and be able to tailor your offerings to them to solve as many of these problems as you possibly can. This way you become a sort of "one stop shopping". They can go to you to solve and meet several of their needs instead of just one single one.

Being able to make announcements for them through out the day is a problem you can solve for them that they have a direct need for.

Being able to have your show self-contained solves another problem. So you see the list does go on and on.

Attending some festivals in your area will help you to see what these needs are if you go with open eyes and really observe what is going on around you.

Keep us posted on how this goes for you and if there is anything I can help you with, please just let me know. It would be my pleasure to assist you in any way that I can.

Kyle

A few years ago, a friend of mine who is a vendor at a local Fair (a Ren Fair) called and asked me if I could come and work outside of her booth as an attraction for the crowds, which I did. I guess it was the first ren Fair trade show gig in history (or at least that I have heard about!

The Fair management came by and asked about what I was doing, she pulled her contract, which showed that she could have entertainment, they watched my show, smiled and left after making some politely positive comments.

This might be an approach that would work, but ONLY if Faire management agrees to the idea, of course.

It worked for me, I got good "hats" and a daily stipend as well, from the vendor (and it was a LOT better than what the Faire was paying their street performers, that's for sure!).

Hope this helps!

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Lee brings up some interesting topics for conversation. I want to try and go over a few of them here if I could.


In his situation, he did the right thing in making sure that his vendor friend had an agreement with management that entertainment was allowed and was ok./ This is critical.

The last thing you want to do is to go to a fair or festival and just start performing with no agreement or arrangement ahead of time with the festival folks. They pay a lot of money to entertainers and the venbdors pay money for their spots. It is not fair to the festival or the vendors to have you doing what you are doing, even if you feel you are doing them a favor. In many cases, they will be very annoyed.

The last thing you want to do is annoy the vendors and the festival committee. Festivals talk with each other and vendors do the same. These folks know other festival folks and word of mouth travels very fast. Do not be one of their topics of discussion that would become a negative thing for you.

It is always best to get into a festival 2 ways:

1) You get in as a paid entertainer and have the festival pay you for your stage shows or for your strolling magic. An agreement is reached and a contract drawn out so everyone knows what is expected of the other.

2) You get in as a paid vendor. If you fo this route, make sure they know what you intend to sell and that it is ok for you to do a bit of demoing of the magic you are selling. Usually they have no problems with this because you are paying for a spot at the festival and as long as you stay within your spot, you can do as you please.

These 2 ways are best ways to get into festivals without causing any problems. Hope this information helps. Thanks Lee for bringing that up. It is a really good and valid point.

Kyle

Boy oh boy! I've been reading for two plus hours and haven't even scratched the surface of what is being offered here. I've done my share of outdoor performances and can heartily endorse all the advice given here. I would only add this: make up a really nice "tips are welcome" sign. People who really like you will make it worth your while to continue performing, even when the conditions are discouraging!
Carry on.
The Amazing Stephen

Stephen:

Thanks for the kind words. I hope some of this information has been of help to you. Outdoor shows certainly are different, and performing and getting into festivals is a different ball game as well.

I am not so sure though that I agree with the "tips are welcome" sign. Nothing personal at all. Let me explain why in hopes to shed some light on the subject.

As explained above, I think there are 2 main ways to get into festivals. 1) as a paid entertainer by the festival and 2) as a vendor that you are oaying for a spot to sell your wares.

If you are getting paid by the festival, then there is no reason for you to have to have a tips sign. This often times goes against the festival's policies. You are being hired to perform a set amount of shows or strolling magic for a set price. Leave it at that and leave the tips sign behind. Having a tips sign when you are already being paid, seems like a slap in the face to any festival committee. It comes across as if you feel you are not getting paid what you want or that the festival is short changing you. It sends out the wrong message.

If you are going in as a vendor, then I usually go in for 3 reasons 1) to have people buy some of my magic products 2) to get my information and marketing materials out to the folks attending the festival and 3) to get noticed by the festival folks who make the decisions for next year.

I will only do magic as a vendor by doing short demoing at my booth. As a vendor I never want to do magic anywhere other then my paid spot. I also do not want to offer a tips jar etc. because my main focus as a vendor is to get people to buy my BOR (back of room) products. If they feel they have to tip me, then it is less chance of them spending money on my BOR items.

Hope this helps a bit.

Kyle

Thanks for thr kind words, Kyle. One thing I neglected to mention was that, the day before the Faire opened, I did a walk through and introduced myself to the vendors that were next to and across from my employer's booth, let them know that I would be doing my thing and that they could benefit by working the crowds as they left my performances.

Several of them came up to my after the first day and congratulated me on helping them have their best first day sales in a long time.

Sometimes, it's good to make sure that you know your neighbors and are friendly with them.

Lee Darrow, C.H.

Working and being friendly to the vendors, like Lee did, is essential and a great festival practice. I do this same thing every festival I perform at. You can help these vendors by:

- Introducing yourself to them and telling them you will be drawing crowds they can work from
- Talk about visiting the other vendors near you before your shows, to your audiences
- Make announcements about the vendors on your sound system before your stage show
etc.

All these serve an easy way to get the vendors on your side. Making friends with the vendors can have great added value for yourself as well. They can:

- Offer you food items for free without you having to stay in line
- Vendors often attend a lot of festivals and fairs and have great contact information that they might be willing to share with you.

So what Lee did was perfect. Not only was it a nice gesture to let them know what was going on, but he also probably made some great contacts along the way.

Kyle

OK Here is one that got me. I sent out my promo kit featuring my Medicine show, but the lady did go to my website and saw the face painting and balloons, so she sent me this email.

> Subject: XYZ Festival
>
>
>> Peter,
>> My name is Tina and I spoke with you several months ago about your
>> entertainment. We are a xxx festival and our dates are September
>> zz-xx,2005. We are interested in your face paintings and ballon
>> sculpture. How do you do your fees? Please email me back and let me
>> know please.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tina

So I sent her this.

> Yes Tina, we have a daily fee that we work on of $500 per day. But with
> your festival lasting 5 days we would work for $1500 for the whole
> festival. This includes 2 half hour magic shows a day, face painting, balloon > sculpture and walk around magic for all days. Please go to our website and
> you can see
> the face painting and balloons we do. This price is for Doc Paddy and
> Miss Ruthie, we can also come as our clown characters, Daffy O'Dill and
> Paddy The Clown, for an additional $200 for the entire five days.
>
> Please call so we can work something out that fits your budget.
>
Then tonight I got this one from her.

Peter,
See the thing is that we always charge our vendors a fee of 400.00 and
they keep all the profits. Is there anyway that you can work with us on
this. We have 2 festivals one in June 30-July 2 and the other one
September 13-17 2005. Please let me know if you can work with us? Like you
pay us a vending fee, then you charge the customers for the face paintings
and the ballons. I did check out your website and it looked great that is
why I would like to work with you some way. Let me know something.

Thanks,
Tina


OK The question I have is has anyone else had this happen, where you were going in as entertainment and they wanted you to vend only? I checked everything that I sent out and there is NOTHING to lead anyone to think that I am a vendor.

Peter

Peter -

I speak from having done hundreds of festival performances over the past 25 years. What happened to you, happens now and then.

You need to get on the phone with this prospect (avoid e-mail, which is clearly not letting you communicate the message you wish to communicate).

You need to turn this situation around. You need to explain that you are not a vendor, and for many good reasons.

Right now, this prospect is thinking of you with an enterprising mind. They want YOU to pay to be at their event. They want to make money off of you. You need to make them understand that by paying for your show and other services, that they will be making profit off of you.

So you need to explain that, because you are present at their event, and will be doing these things (balloon twisting, magic, and face painting) for FREE to the attendees, the END RESULT will be building goodwill between them (the festival) and the festival attendees (guests). You need to encourage them to use some of their money that they are earning from the vendors to pay for your fee.

If it were me, I would remind them that when the public pays to get into a festival or fair, and then has a show or other special giveaways for free, those guests feel like they are getting their full value, and more. When they feel like their kids are happy, and not driving them crazy, those parents will be happy about attending their event, and want to come back again. The actions they CHOOSE will affect how guests feel about their festival experience right now. The actions they choose this year will also affect next year's attendance, and also word of mouth.

I can't tell you the number of times I've heard guests say, "Wow! You mean I don't have to pay? Are you sure? That's great!" And I just remind them to thank the festival organizers for offering our entertainment. People love feeling VALUE, and your service adds value to their event.

However, if the guests paid to get in, and then had to pay for EVERYTHING inside, and there was NO free entertainment or giveaways, they will feel a sense of not getting their money's worth. They will tell their friends and will not come back again next year.

(BTW, this is true, whether the guests pay an entry fee or not. The event will be a success based on how the guests feel about the experience!)

Ask the prospect at this point in time, after having explained that, what is the end result they want? What do they want the GUESTS at their event to be feeling at the event, and afterwards? And what are some of the best ways to enhance their guests' festival experience, which will increase their profit?

You may not be able to convince this prospect that paying for you, so you can be free for their guests, is the best option. But I would encourage you to politely stand your ground, and explain the advantages of going that route with your act.

In the long run, a customer will be happier having made the decision to spend a little bit of that vendor income to give something back to the guests.

- Donald

Donald gives some great advice here. Thank you Donald for chiming in.

One thing is that festivals handle situations from 2 main avenues. You are either 1) a vendor and 2) an entertainer. The key point is that their are chair people usually set up to handle each of these. Because there are different people set up for this, it is KEY and critical to make sure you "qualify" your leads and contacts before sending anything out.

You need to know you are working with the entertainment person and decision maker and not a person only interested in getting as many vendors there as they possibly can. Qualifying your leads will help you do this and get your information into the proper hands.

Even by doing this, you may not always get the reaction that you seek. Sometimes, a person will handle a situation much like you experienced here. In most cases we must also keep in mind, that you often know more about handling entertainment and working a festival then the person does.

It is not their fault. At the local level of festivals, most are people involved in the community who are trying their best to solve the problems the festival faces. So do not get discouraged here. First, they may just be doing the vendor angle out of confusion.

It is time to take action to educate them and to also offer solutions for them that can solve their needs. Much like what Donald said above, you can let them know the benefits your show has that will directly impact their festival in a positive way. In a way that will actually draw people to the festival, keep them their longer and generate more income for the festival in the long run.

Kyle

Hey!!! I had to really hunt for this topic!! Let's keep it going, I have been learning so much on the festival venue. Kyle, when is your book going to be out?

Peter

Peter, I had to take a step away from it for a few weeks as my festival shows are coming up and I had to devote new time to learning new routines for the show, doing marketing for my theater show next month and also doing 2 logo design projects for 2 magician clients of mine.

Now that the festival season is almost here, and I have some time available, I will start back up with it. I think I am about 40% of the way through writing the chapters. The book just keeps growing and growing, but it will be done this year for sure.

But let us now focus back to you guys and not myself. Now is the start of the festival season. Now is the time when your mailings should have gone out, your doing your follow ups and hopefully you have landed a few gigs at some festivals and are preparing for them.

With this in mind, what problems, issues do people have that need to be discussed? Do you have a gig but now need some help with what to expect on the day of the show? Let us find out where each of you are for this year and help each other out and learn together.

Kyle

Kyle,
Thanks so much for the wonderful information.
It looks to me like you could have a book in the making.

Parson,

Thanks so much. If there is anything I can help you with, please let me know. It would be my pleasure. Indeed I do have a book project in the works. It is just taking me a while to write it and get it the way I want it to be to be able to help as many folks as I can.

Have you done any festivals? Are you looking to get into them?

Kyle

Well just booked a last minute festival for this weekend. Since I had an opening decided I would go after it. I am on one of those online leads websites and got an email about this yesterday. Called in response to the lead and as of this morning was asked to fax them a contract so they could have my check ready for me on Saturday. It hadn't occur to me the possibility that groups would be still be looking at this short of a notice. I know now that I'm going to have to keep inquiring year round as you never know what might come along. Well, got to get a contract out and start working on a custom presentation with some of their historical facts incorporated.

Martin

Awesome Martin to hear of your festival and fair success. Yes, that is a very good point. Never stop looking for festival and fair leads. I always make it a point to be pro-active and now it is a habit of me to check my local online community calendars, check the newspapers for what is going on on the weekends, if I pass a festival sign, I write it down etc. I am always gathering information and leads for festivals every chance I get and entering them into a database. This is a great habit to have as it constantly opens new doors for you and prepares you for opportunities that are unexpected and gets you started on a new lead list for the off season as well.

I am also happy to annouce a LOT of great festival success. Kelly and I just got a call today and we rebooked all 100% of the festivals we did last year. Not one of them backed out and every single one of them wanted us back again this year. I had no idea that would happen and we are so excited to see that our relationship building and our marketing has paid off like it has.

On top of the repeat festivals, we have received a lot of new festivals for this season as well as opportunities to work at the state capitol as well as our own short run at a 200 seat theater near us. Things are shaping up great and our first festival for the season will start this coming Friday.

I will be sure to keep you all up to date on how things go, what I learn and new things and topics that come up as the season progresses. I would hope others will also share their stories, questions and issues as well.

Kyle