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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Cubism : Maestro » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (26 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Rob.m
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Quote:
On Aug 13, 2018, pabloinus wrote:
Let's keep the thread factual.if you received an email, please let us know when and what forrest said.
So far I have not received any message back through facebook or KS



I put the emails that I had received from forrest on the main thread that was removed some time ago.
Ben rayot
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Belfast
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As far as am aware he has no intention in sending cubism maestro. He has lied all the way through and knew from the start that he was going to screw us all. It just reminds me me that this is the second time I am getting done by a so called reputable magicians
pegasus
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Quote:
On Aug 14, 2018, Ben rayot wrote:
As far as am aware he has no intention in sending cubism maestro. He has lied all the way through and knew from the start that he was going to screw us all. It just reminds me me that this is the second time I am getting done by a so called reputable magicians


Bingo.
JackMagic
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Looks like he is getting rid of all his DVDs with a 50% off all DVD sale

Would not be surprised once he has got rid that will be the last we will see of him
TheBentos
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Grim North
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Companies House website for Full52 makes an interesting read
Jack Straw
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What I take from that, Bentos, is that Dave's trouble is a divorce.

But millions of people go through divorces and manage to go to work every day.

His wife sure isn't letting it bother her if her Facebook posts are any indicator.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
Rob.m
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His wife may have got half the mats in the divorce settlement so he needs to sell some stuff off to buy some new mats.
pegasus
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Makes sense now. Kickstarter project in order to fund a quick divorce.
david196
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The balance sheet, accessed through Company's House indicates that there are no assets in the business and over 15,000 debt. Dave accepted an order from me for CM after it was fully funded so a year later I took court action to get a refund after he ignored both letter and email communication. He also ignored the court demand to pay me so now there is a CCJ against his business. It's clear that he purchased Chloe's share in the business so he is the some shareholder now. The court offered me the opportunity to pay for a bailiff to go and remove goods. It's 100 to do this and since I've already spent that on the order and court fee I doubt that there is much there from which to get my money back. As the business is Ltd Dave's only personal financial obligation is the value of his shares if it goes into liquidation. I can't help wonder whether the other dealers who advertise Full 52 items are getting stock. There are suggestions on other posts that no direct orders have been fulfilled for a while now. It's not just a CM problem and we don't expect this treatment from a magic dealer amongst a small community of magicians.
Jack Straw
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Well, there you go.

But he still is shipping Cubism Maestro by the end of the month, right D_avid?
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
pegasus
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Quote:
On Aug 16, 2018, Jack Straw wrote:
Well, there you go.

But he still is shipping Cubism Maestro by the end of the month, right D_avid?


Lol. Brilliant.
Michael T
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Quote:
On Aug 16, 2018, david196 wrote:
As the business is Ltd Dave's only personal financial obligation is the value of his shares if it goes into liquidation.

That's right, the way it works in the UK regards limited companies is that if the business ceases to exist, the directors of the business are not liable to pay any outstanding creditors.

What this means in this case is that if Full 52 Productions Ltd becomes insolvent (which given events from the last year seems a possibility) he is able to wind up the company and is under no legal obligation whatsoever to repay any money to anyone or send out any products. He is also able to walk out of the situation totally unblemished apart from the damage done to his reputation in the magic world, which has already been done.
This system is designed to protect directors of companies from being liable for failings of a business which makes sense for the most part. But of course, when a limited company has only one director who is also the sole employee, this loophole opens up.

Interestingly, Full 52 Productions Ltd has only existed for 3 years but Dave Forrest has been operating as a dealer since at least 2004 (Full52.com was registered that year). During the 11 years before he formed the limited company, he would have been operating as self employed and therefore would have been held personally liable for every aspect of the business.
pabloinus
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David196, actually the small information provided in 12/2017 in the site indicates a 17027 pounds debt within the year, that it is closed to the CM overall funding, maybe it is just a coincidence and the company owes other people as well.
Comparing to 2016 the amount of debt almost triple, which could indicate the CM impact in the balance sheet, or I can be totally wrong.

Also from reading, there is no indication of divorce, only than one of the shareholders (50%) ceased controls and the other party Dave Forrest took 100% of the control, it looks like if the company will go bankruptcy only Forrest will be liable, and the other shareholder will not. Maybe a way to protect other assets or liabilities from debtors, but this is pure speculation from my side by reading the documents.

Net not communication and no product, what a waste of money, effort, reputation.
Jack Straw
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Quote:
On Aug 16, 2018, pabloinus wrote:

Also from reading, there is no indication of divorce, only than one of the shareholders (50%) ceased controls and the other party Dave Forrest took 100% of the control, it looks like if the company will go bankruptcy only Forrest will be liable, and the other shareholder will not.


I just made the divorce assumption based on the fact that his wife ceased being part of the operation.

I didn't read all of the financial stuff because I don't pretend to understand it, or the way you Brits do things over there.

But if a corporation's debt is not assumed by the shareholders, why else would she cease being a part of it?

Maybe because she did not want her good name sullied?
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
funnymagic
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His partner is involved in local politics. Doesn't look good her being associated with a company with this kind of controversy surrounding it?

Often partner's become involved in small limited companies for accountancy/tax reasons only. So it may be nothing sinister.
Jack Straw
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Quote:
On Aug 16, 2018, funnymagic wrote:
His partner is involved in local politics. Doesn't look good her being associated with a company with this kind of controversy surrounding it?


Like I said, maybe because she did not want her good name sullied.

After all, Dave's reputation is gone.

I used to like the guy.

Not anymore.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
pabloinus
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Jack, I am from NY, so I don't know the UK laws, but being LTD most likely Forrest' company financial responsibilities are nil.
However the 2017 balance sheet does not show the $24000 as a receivable, most likely the KS project was done by Forrest not his company and he kept the money in a personal account. He used his company to buy the products hence the 17000 pounds as debts. So if he bankrupt the company he can keep the money and pay nothing to the suppliers. Of course we will never see the props either.

Again all this is my idea the facts could be different. It will be nice to hear from him the real story
Jack Straw
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Well, since Dave has been missing in action for close to a half year, so I think that says everything.

How many times did he say things like, "My person at the mat company isn't working there anymore, and my order was forgotten, and now they have more important things to do than my small mat order", and "The mats are finally coming on Thursday, so I'll be shipping on Monday", or "Now I need the shipping boxes, which will be here on Wednesday, so I'll definitely ship on Friday", and "Just look at the photo of all of this stuff sitting here ready to go. Do you think I want this taking up space in my flat"?

A year from now he'll be back here selling his next project like nothing happened, unless The Café bans him like they banned Justin Miller.
Jack Straw from Wichita, cut his buddy down
And dug for him a shallow grave, and laid his body down
Half a mile from Tucson, by the morning light
One man gone and another to go, my old buddy you're moving much too slow
We can share the women, we can share the wine
Rob.m
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Quote:
On Aug 16, 2018, Jack Straw wrote:

A year from now he'll be back here selling his next project like nothing happened, unless The Café bans him like they banned Justin Miller.


If the café bans him - it will not stop him selling his stuff elsewhere and there are a lot of people that do not know about what he as done so will buy from him - Did not see him at Blackpool this year wonder if he will show up next year.
david196
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I have to concur with what the other posts say with regards to the financial standing and UK company law, which is why I came into the post from a slightly different angle. I believe its December before Dave has to post his end of 17/18 accounts. As far as I can tell, If a Ltd company owes more than 700 pounds a case can be put forward to have a director running the business disqualified as a director, which I think means that they cannot become a director of another business which could mean that he is unable to wind up Full52 and start again as a different Ltd company. I'm not sure that any one of us is owed that amount individually, however I'd be prepared to share a joint submission for disqualification with others. I am especially annoyed because I had brought stuff from Full52 before and never had any problem so I thought it was a trustworthy business.We may all have been scammed and we may never see our money or CM but there are a whole bunch of hobbyists and new comers to our art and it would be a shame if they suffered and got a bad impression of dealers in general.
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