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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Temporarily Out of Order (22 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bobby Forbes
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virginia beach, VA.
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Just got this book yesterday. Been a long time user of the memorized deck. Over the last 20 years or so Ive learned aronson, shadow stack, mnemonica, joyal, and the hacker stack. Mnemonica was my preferred stack for most of those years. Needless to say, I'm switching to the Redford stack after reading through the book. Too many awesome features to pass up. Gonna have fun memorizing this. Awesome stuff.
Patrick Redford
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Michigan
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Thanks Bobby! That's makes me smile! I'm honored that you're taking the time!
John Nesbit
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This book and the work within it, represent a significantly new and rich approach and execution of card magic on many exciting levels.Temporarily Out of Order will stand the test of time with principles involved as well as applications and routines. I have yet begun to absorb the majority of it's contents. It will make life most interesting and very cool to wrap my head around and perform these great effects and ideas. Bravo Patrick.
tomd
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So one last question... just how easy is it to go from NDO to Redfords stack, and vice Versa? I use Mnemonica and it's not an easy process.
David Numen
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I've found it a pretty easy process going between the two - you have to go from ndo to si stebbins then to Redford but it's an easy process.

I don't write here much but this book is so good I had to. An excellent new addition and direction for memdeck work. I look forward to the sequels!
Robert P.
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Kansas
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I think I read somewhere that this book would get a reprint, does anyone know any more info on this? I'd like to pick this up but would wait until I get the newer book that incorporates the errata if it is coming soon.
Doctor D
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Quote:
On Nov 7, 2018, Robert P. wrote:
I think I read somewhere that this book would get a reprint, does anyone know any more info on this? I'd like to pick this up but would wait until I get the newer book that incorporates the errata if it is coming soon.


Patrick is indeed working on a reprint, has not announced a date yet.
As far as picking up a first edition, I don't think I've seen it in stock anywhere online.
Poof-Daddy
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Considering Stopping At Exactly
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I saw it on Real Magazine's Marketplace the other day. Not certain if it is in stock because I got a used copy for $40 a month or so ago Smile worth checking in with Kozmo though to see if he has it in stock (besides Real Magazine Online being the best value in magic).
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rmorrell
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Rich Morrell
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Chris K
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The quotes below are from the following thread but I am posting here since it’s a TOOO specific discussion: https://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/view......orum=205

Quote:
On Dec 20, 2019, Fredzik wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 20, 2019, dclxvinyc wrote:
Quote:
On Dec 19, 2019, aabc wrote:
However, in TOOO, there are two tricks laid out that take you from a shuffled deck to stack (without going directly with a potentially more see-through trick). In Mnemonica, this is not the case.... For someone (the OP) who seems relatively inexperienced with stack work... He has even done the PEG system for you...Whatever stack you learn though, I think you should get both books.


Do you think as a long time mnemonica user that I should check out Redford?...


I personnaly don't think there as much material explored for Redford Stack than Mnemonica for the time being.
First as you mention, a lot of material included in TOOO is stack independant, and many strong impact routines do not require a particular stack. Secondly the Tamariz stack was expored by many many magicians...
...Si Stebbins properties are nice, but Mnemonica has also Stay Stack, can also be stacked for shuffled
deck with a Chinese Shuffle or with a routine like Memory Jumble
and there are many nice routines to end up easily with NDO...
If one goes along the list of the 22 reasons for the Redford Stack, most of them are fullfilled by Mnemonica too.



Please note, I significantly edited (cut out) material from the quotes above but the link to the thread is above. Below is just a bit of background regarding my mem deck experience for context.

I purchased Redford's TOOO book in the beginning of November, so I obviously don't have years of experience with it. I will give my impressions and try to answer/respond to some of the above discussion. In terms of my current and historic mem deck work, I have been a heavy Mnemonica user the last couple of years. Prior to that, I got into mem deck work using the Joyal 6-hour stack. I used that stack almost exclusively for Barrie Richardson's then, later, Alain Nu's ACAAN approaches. But I wasn't performing a lot and occasionally had brain farts. At that point, due to the ease of learning Atlas Brookings' The Solution mem deck, I moved to that when it came out and started doing a lot more mem deck work. Once I heard that Mnemonica was going to be republished, I used The Memory Arts book (hardcover) to really drill Mnemonica into my head (although I now think Rick Lax's approach at Penguin Magic is the best way for a neophyte to learn the stack). It took a while before the reprinting of Mnemonica actually came out but I had it down cold by then, to the point that I don't use a ton of actual effects from Mnemonica, but I do apply many of the principles. My decks are always stacked these days but I never worried about moving into non-mem deck order because I found it kind of fun to shuffle the deck back into Mnemonica order (I'm a faro kind of guy).

My initial impression of TOOO and the Redford stack mirrored closely to what Fredzick said above. I felt getting into the stack was a little unnatural and slow. Additionally, with the excellent non-stack dependent tricks, I had some trouble seeing what was so great about the Redford stack (as it compared to Mnemonica).

Then I played with the stack more. For me, I knew how to get in/out of the Redford stack from NDO by memory without trying after just a few days, which surprised me tbh. I used George's/Patrick's peg system (for the most part) simply to keep this deck separate from Mnemonica (as I was planning to memorize the Redford stack for specific effects, a la the Further than That stack while using Mnemonica as my mem deck). It was pretty simple to learn (as peg systems are, by design).

So, there I was. I knew how to get in and out of the stack. I knew the stack (not at the right speed yet but I could figure it out). I also knew what I thought were the features from the deck I would use the most. The red-black order (for various OOTW approaches, for example), the 4 hand royal flush poker deal and Partner Poker (I don't do many gambling demos but these were just so easy and straightforward), and King Me. There were other effects that were intriguing but those were the stack-specifics that caught my eye initially.
Then, when I moved into the stack-independent routines, I was thrilled. Some really great ideas there. I'm not even sure which ones to highlight but I will say the Ninja Tossed Out deck changed how I prepare card boxes these days, which is big for me.
The more I played with the deck, putting it in and out of order, memorizing the stack, trying effects, the more I thought I would use the Redford as opposed to Mnemonica. Up to this last weekend when I decided I was just going to go all-in on the Redford stack. I'll try to keep everyone informed if I realize I made a brilliant decision and/or a huge mistake.

Finally, just one last thing, I agree 100% with the part of the review posted below (I included link to source):
https://www.bicycle-cards.co.uk/2017/10/......-review/
I found the front cover unimaginative and the back cover rather stark, nor do I like the glossy paper on which the book is printed or the font used. Sorry! But don't let this put you off - because the content is brilliant and more than makes up for these assaults to my aesthetic sensibilities! And in its favour it is well illustrated throughout.
Anti-intellectualism has been nurtured by the false notion that "my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge."-Isaac Asimov
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