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cafecheckers
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Wow! After months of back and forth on this thread, we are really getting into the heart of the intent of the thread - which was to discuss opinions on the value of coaching. Here cbguy seeks exponential growth vs incremental, and finds himself like a duck out of water. This is so familiar to me, as I also am moving rapidly into uncharted waters. We see the short comings from winging it or relying on those who offer some advice but are not in it for the long run. Mindoro shared above something has not yet been discussed, that is the sense of ownership a coach has. This is far different than those who offer podcasts, dvd's, or even courses. This is also different than those who offer 1 time coaching sessions.

The other thing I see playing out here is that the issue goes well beyond the stated concern of "How do I move to a new market". This involves looking at every aspect of ones business under a different lens. For example, how the show is perceived, how the website is perceived, how the stated benefits are perceived. As Mindoro often reminds us here- things that one may present believing to be an advantage, may actually be perceived as a negative.

Cbguy has been so open here, many of us have benefited from his contributions on this thread and others where he offers his website and media events, while showing respect to all. Therefore, I will share a it of my perception about coaching, at least as it relates to being a student of Mindoro as he has stated here that he reached out to him possibly seeking his services.

When I sought Mindpro's services, I did so with a good understanding of the type of coach he would be, based upon several years of communications here. I believed I would need foundational learning on a wide array of topics. I was not looking for advice on fixing a problem or seeking narrow advice such as "How do I get into a new market? Likewise, I believe Mindoro knew I was not looking for a quick fix, which is probably one reason he agreed to work with me. Mindpro's teaching style is such that he makes the student arrive at the answers on their own. If you look closely at his advice here you will see this time and time again. It frustrates the heck out many, who then question his advice and/or accuse him of holding out on everyone. For me, it is exactly what I am looking for. One may recall Danny Doyle posing a potential negative to receiving coaching is that it prevents one from learning from their mistakes. I saw his post as a very real possibility and one we all should be on guard for. I believe this is not a concern for students who work with Mindpro. You can see from his list above though, he is through and believes everything you do is linked, and that you are only as good as your weakest link. That is why his students probably stay with him over time. They too begin to see and understand this. If you feel you are in a bind and need a quick fix, perhaps he is not the right fit. Just as many with experience tend to walk away from the "I was hired to do a show for an audience type I never performed in front of and it's in two weeks, what do I do?, I believe Mindpro will give you the type of advice you don't want to hear. If a quick fix is your only concern, then seek advice from others and roll the dice.
Dannydoyle
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Mike by the way you are not the subject of this thread and having an indignant attitude when people don't help as you demand isn't cool.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Mike by the way you are not the subject of this thread and having an indignant attitude when people don't help as you demand isn't cool.

Wow! So true. What a turn of events. He posted while I was typing and my post did not reflect his most recent entry. Clearly, I now believe it is not a good match.
TomBoleware
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Yeah Mike, forget those 18 years of experience performing in front of a wide variety of real live people, which means nothing.
You will need to buy you a ball and vase and start all over. Smile

But Seriously, to say that 18 years of experience performing means nothing is a joke. I mean a big JOKE. I can't believe mindpro thinks that.

cbguy, mindpro is like the little girl in the lemonade story, all talk no action, he continues to throw out more questions without
providing any help. My advice is to stick with Robert and his advice, as you know he too was a street performer and he can guide you
better than anybody on here. But in the end it's going to be up to YOU to do what needs to be done.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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I guess we will see who the joke is after he has spent all that money. Taking encouragement from you who has never done what he is trying is one way to go.

After all your encouragement sure helped Benji SOAR like a little eagle!
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
cbguy
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Danny, my apologies if I came off like I meant business...but I'm business driven. I don't have the time to lolly-gag and waste time playing games, on this forum.

Mindpro, I appreciate your books. I own them and they are very useful and I'm glad to own and use the information.

WDavis, I appreciate your help and I feel like your suggestions are good ones.

TomBoleware, you are 100% correct and I appreciate your encouragement. Robert is clearly the most knowledgeable guy on the topic I brought up and I will be chatting with him again shortly.

I'm checking out of this conversation, so y'all can get back to whatever it is you were arguing about before I chimed in.


Peace!
Mike
Dannydoyle
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Mike it is understandable. You are a real person real money with VERY real consequences. It is understandable that you be focused. I would worry if you were not.

But I get confused why those who have not done this ever try to guide others with bad advice.

Which is why I said I hoped Robert would chime in.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
thomasR
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I'm willing to predict that with Roberts help, Mike will do very well.

I do love Mindpros advice on going to a fair conference and getting a feel for the industry before jumping in. This is applicable to other markets as well such as performing arts conferences, amusement industry, etc.
RobertSmith
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Sitting backstage here at the Nebraska State Fair. Lynyrd Skynyrd is about to start sound check. Going to be a sick show tonight.

Mike, you're a professional. You've read all the information here. You decide for yourself.
RobertSmith
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2017, thomasR wrote:
I'm willing to predict that with Roberts help, Mike will do very well.

I do love Mindpros advice on going to a fair conference and getting a feel for the industry before jumping in. This is applicable to other markets as well such as performing arts conferences, amusement industry, etc.



Just so it's clear that I don't just come in guns a blazing ready to go at mindpro? This actually isn't terrible advice.
In fact I have already given a number of rookie performers one of my extra badges at IAFE so they could come see it for themselves and get ideas.

For seasoned performers I'm more likely to suggest they go all in.
cbguy
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...and for the record, I did the same thing as Robert, in that I gave one of my extra badges for the IAFE to a friend who is interested.

I ave two badges left, so if someone is interested in getting into the fair market, let me know and I will give you a badge to get into the convention in Las Vegas, this November.

Furthermore, if anyone wants to learn how to busk or is interested in getting into renaissance festivals, let me know and I will help you in every way I can and like Robert, I will never charge you a dime for my help.

...but please send these things in a pm, so we don't hijack this thread.


Take care,
Mike
cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2017, cbguy wrote:
Robert is clearly the most knowledgeable guy on the topic I brought up and I will be chatting with him again shortly.
Mike


This gets to the heart of the thread topic. Who is best to guide our actions? Mike mentioned Don Driver in a post. I I were seeking to make a NFL team, Don Driver would be a great resource because he played at that level. He knows what it took him to get there. If however, I had a choice between Don and a talent agent, coach or GM, Don would be last on my list. Why? Because his perspective is limited in relative terms. He may not have the proper skill sets to guide others. He may be uncomfortable being candid with me about my chances of success, while the other three choices do that sort of thing every day.

So in this case, while Robert has personal experience, and has shown a willingness to share and guide others, I would still choose an agent, fair market talent scout or buyer over a performer.

The whole point is to increase ones odds of success to the highest degree. A fellow performer who made it is a step forward and will greatly increase ones potential. I would still seek one with broader fair experience if possible.
cbguy
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LOL...Don Driver was a magician, escape artist and most notably a Svengali pitchman, before he passed away earlier this year.
TomBoleware
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Don Driver was a pitchman that worked fairs, festivals, etc.


Edit, we posted at the same time about Don. LOL

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
RobertSmith
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2017, Cafécheckers wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 1, 2017, cbguy wrote:
Robert is clearly the most knowledgeable guy on the topic I brought up and I will be chatting with him again shortly.
Mike


This gets to the heart of the thread topic. Who is best to guide our actions? Mike mentioned Don Driver in a post. I I were seeking to make a NFL team, Don Driver would be a great resource because he played at that level. He knows what it took him to get there. If however, I had a choice between Don and a talent agent, coach or GM, Don would be last on my list. Why? Because his perspective is limited in relative terms. He may not have the proper skill sets to guide others. He may be uncomfortable being candid with me about my chances of success, while the other three choices do that sort of thing every day.

So in this case, while Robert has personal experience, and has shown a willingness to share and guide others, I would still choose an agent, fair market talent scout or buyer over a performer.

The whole point is to increase ones odds of success to the highest degree. A fellow performer who made it is a step forward and will greatly increase ones potential. I would still seek one with broader fair experience if possible.


My man, you may believe this, but your actions speak very differently.
cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Sep 1, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
My man, you may believe this, but your actions speak very differently.

Come again?
TomBoleware
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Hearing the name Don Driver reminded me of the time I meet him years ago. It was sometimes in the 80's that we meet and we chatted for a long time about how hard working outdoor events can be. I knew what he was doing was hard work because I had worked with a carnival during a summer in the 70’s called the mighty blue grass shows ( I believe that’s the right name) I didn’t work all summer but did stay long enough to find out how hot it can get under a tent. But anyway, Don seemed like a very nice guy. We swapped a couple of messages online a couple of years ago and he remembered me from way back then.

Ok, that’s my flashback for the day. Back on topic.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Mindpro
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Since it's a holiday weekend I thought I would share a quick and uplifting story.

Over the course of this thread Cafécheckers has posted some of his experience and feelings of coaching with me. Although its only been such a short time, I think he feels major insight, learning and progress since working together. I see when he does try to share some of his excitement and experience, it isn't always accepted here perhaps as he intends or hopes, or it hasn't triggered the discussion he hoped to by doing so. These have been his perspectives as it related to him, his successes and progress.

However, after our most recent session a couple of days ago, I thought I would share something - a small 15 - maybe 20 second segment of our last session. (I was going to post this after our session, but the thread went in a different direction with trying to assist cbguy and his current immediate situation.)

So our session is over and we are wrapping up telling each other thank you and to have a great week, when very quickly I say something to him just in passing, as a quick last minute comment. The content isn't really important, but after I offered this information there was silence...followed by "WOW! That was amazing. That is exactly the type of thing that I could only get from you and your coaching!"

It was only a quick throwaway bit of info, but it had a huge impact on him. It was information he couldn't or wouldn't get from anywhere else, and he quickly realized it and stated it.

You could ask all 65,753 members of the Café, and most performers he knows or has ever met, and he couldn't have gotten this type of industry information from any of them. And that was just a passing comment, not even part of our actual session.

I bring this up to hopefully once again offer some insight into his coaching with me, and from my side of our sessions which while private, I thought I would share generally without specifics. It is another benefit and advantage to our coaching that he could not get from anywhere else or find in any other resources or publications for performers or our industry. Progress happens, even when we're just saying goodbye.

I know some here have struggled with trying to understand why he wants coaching or the benefits to working with a coach (my coaching is all I can speak of, not all or others) and ths is just anothrer of those examples.
RobertSmith
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I can't even take this seriously anymore.
Dannydoyle
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I can't imagine you ever did.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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