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charliecheckers
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The recent thread on "lessons from sports" touched upon something that relates to this thread. That is, does one look at their entertainment business as a individual or team approach? This may influence ones view of deploying a coach into their strategy- I am not sure. My brother and I always viewed it as a team, not because we were partners, but because we saw it as way to grow more rapidly. Coaching, sponsors, loan organizations, builders, marketers. Getting others to believe in our vision and play a part in the overall success. My brother just received a prestigious fellowship award through a foundation whose purpose is to spur economic growth in our area. They offer both financial and business assistance- through internship and partnership support. The fact that he had a coach was likely a strong contributing factor to others belief in the endeavor. Specifically, Mindpro- was able to provide validity and social proof. His professionalism alone spoke loudly on my brothers behalf. Relying on others has been a most critical part of our strategy.
WDavis
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Charlie,

In underwriting, if using the P's framework, you touched on the people criteria. Do the people involved have the skills knowledge and experience to support the endevour. If they don't have it directly is there a plan to acquire said needs. This is where coaches, boards, etc fit into the equation. And with both of you young and green in business matters, the coaching from Mindoro definitely added credibility and the fact you hired him demonstrated a desire to put some skin in the game to make a real go at it. Cash is a fact everything else is an opinion.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Apr 18, 2017, WDavis wrote:
Cash is a fact everything else is an opinion.


Exactly. As I've said before there is a huge difference in opinions and actual facts.

I am extremely proud of Cafécheckers on his great accomplishment. I am also proud of any role I had in helping to make this happen for him. His commitment and progress to my coaching program played a role in his success for this, as it combined with many of his ideas and what we have been working on each week, and his commitment to his education and business has lead to his community being very supportive of him and his efforts, and now the business and financial communities are also becoming involved and on board.

So I think this is a great example of the original statements and questions being posed here about coaching and the value of coaching, even through it seems many (who have never had a business coach) still want to muddy the waters about having a coach or the value of a coaching program. Between this prestigious award and scholarship, increased bookings and pricing with a single nugget of information, he has seen his bottom line improve thousands of dollars in such a short time of working together. And I must say, he has only just begun to scratch the surface of what we've been working on. I believe this is an exciting return on investment.

Now I must say not all coaches are the same. The recent trend of gurus becoming coaches has created a vast wave of ineffective and unqualified "coaches", so in the context of this thread, I think that makes a huge difference. Someone with proven and legitimate experience in ALL of the areas being sought of an industry, is much different from an internet "coach" preaching based on only their own limited experience in usually a single area. Again all coaching is not the same. Many who I coach have been a part of others well known courses or "coaching" to tell me they learned more in the first few sessions or weeks than they did from entire high-priced programs. There are in reality only a small amount of coaches that truly offer the goods as promised. Even less in entertainment business. The key is finding the right qualified coach to meet your needs, expectations and with the information and experience to move you to towards your progress and goals.

I have yet to find anyone else that offers what I do, and is as results driven for students to succeed. Thanks for the kind words but even more thanks to Cafécheckers for accepting the information, having an open mind and being open to education and understanding, and of course taking action to implement the content being offered. He deserves all of the success he is having and that is ahead of him. He should be so excited he's probably ready to burst.

Someone said here or perhaps in another thread (I think it was rthomas) that magicians tend to think they can do it all themselves. Very few truly can. Successful people tend to surround themselves with other successful people. Often specialists in a specific area. I have always been a proponent of remaining very hands on myself in an overseeing capacity while creating a team to support and drive the success I have created. Like charliecheckers I believe we can accomplish much more in a more immediate time period with a team of the right players. The key is finding the right team members.
cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Apr 18, 2017, WDavis wrote:
In underwriting, if using the P's framework, you touched on the people criteria. Do the people involved have the skills knowledge and experience to support the endevour. If they don't have it directly is there a plan to acquire said needs. This is where coaches, boards, etc fit into the equation. And with both of you young and green in business matters, the coaching from Mindoro definitely added credibility and the fact you hired him demonstrated a desire to put some skin in the game to make a real go at it. Cash is a fact everything else is an opinion.


Everything you share above is so true. I must say though, it was an unintended benefit to me, in that I never considered such things when I first approached Mindpro for coaching services. I have learned this over the past few months - which makes me so glad that I chose to pursue Mindpro's assistance when I did (last fall). My original plan was to wait until the summer of 2019 to seek his help because it would coincide with my going full time, as I currently spend a lot of money on my college education. Something inside me said not to wait, because such opportunities are very rare and I believed I could not take such services for granted. My brother had a strong sense of what Mindpro could provide, but believed I needed to wait until I could devote all my time to my business. The 4 week trial offer Mindpro offered was the perfect time to explore a potential relationship, so I went for it - and never looked back. Now, I realize just how valuable this was from the perspective of others.

Mindpro shares some of the qualities a coach should offer, but I will share a bit from my perspective: Since joining TMC, my brother observed that Mindpro had a unique quality of being able to offer wisdom and advice that was particular to the goals and desires of the individual asking. Often when one asked for assistance on something- like a website design- Mindpro would ask qualifying questions as to the intent, not just offer an opinion based on websites he created for his needs. This takes not only a broad range of knowledge and experience, but also application skills few have. Not all great players are great coaches, or even have an inclination or desire to do so. What came as a complete surprise to me though, was his patience, listening skills, genuine interest, dedication, and flexibility. He allows me to be myself, which includes making mistakes.
thomasR
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This question may be a bit personal.. but what are you doing to further you performance? You are going to college (for?) and you have hired a personal business coach... great. And your show? When you "go full time" you will just magically have a show that matches the business knowledge?

This is the Business side of the forum, but it's important that we remember the performance must be amazing and truly professional.
cafecheckers
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ThomasR- very fair question, and actually great conversation.

My brother and I have been active participants here for the past six years, learning every aspect of performing and running our business, which is full time in the summer months and part time throughout the year. My brother is 4 years ahead of me, so he was the lead throughout most of that time. We slowly transitioned the performing over to me in the last three years, as he is now a second year medical student and only performs occasionally.

We had a very well developed idea of what Mindpro's experience and skill sets were by reading the volumes of posts he has shared here during our tenure. We new for instance, he owned an agency that books kids performers and that he himself has performed in the types of venues we aspired to. Therefore we knew he would be able to align my talent, experience and skill set to a business model that matched up well. There is no magic bullet. I do not expect to know everything about performing or business at that time.

To directly answer your questions-
I am going to school for a bachelers degree in Entrepreneurialism.
Improving my performance- Mindpro offers advice on my performing as well. In fact, I sent him my most recent performance earlier today for feedback on every aspect of the look, style and content. As with any performing art- talent creating and performing the show will play a critical role in how high one can climb. I have a ton to learn in both components of show business. I am just starting out.
thomasR
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Thanks for answering so clearly and openly. That's good that the performance critique / evaluation is part of the coaching.

You know... the original question was about a business coach (or whatever we all decided the correct term was..) but how many of us have used other types of coaches?
Dance Coach, Acting Coach, Vocal Coach, Juggling or Acro Coach (if it applies).... that's a whole different type of coaching.
Mindpro
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Here I only really discuss my EBS entertainment business coaching, consulting and training as to keep it on topic, but in reality I also have several other areas in which I offer structured coaching, consulting and training as well including performance/entertainer.

Also my entertainment business coaching encompasses performance training as it pertains to business operations, market specialization, positioning and branding. Waaaay to many performers create a performance first, THEN try to find someone to book it or sell it to. In reality when approaching your performance from a business and profitability perspective and foundation, a performance should be created congruent to your business model, operation and for the specific target markets you are seeking. So in this capacity performance coaching is part of my entertainment business coaching, training and consulting.

For those that want only performance coaching, consulting or training I do offer this and also offer several other specialized areas of entertainment business coaching, consulting and training in the areas of Fundraising, Speaking, Press & Media For Entertainers, Stage Hypnosis and Agent & Agency coaching, consulting and training. These are all specific areas of entertainment business & performance operations.

Hopefully this better clarifies the information you are seeking.
thomasR
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
Waaaay to many performers create a performance first, THEN try to find someone to book it or sell it to. In reality when approaching your performance from a business and profitability perspective and foundation, a performance should be created congruent to your business model, operation and for the specific target markets you are seeking. So in this capacity performance coaching is part of my entertainment business coaching, training and consulting.


While this statement is true, it seems wrong to me on so many artistic levels.
cafecheckers
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ThomasR- You raised a very interesting additional component to the topic - that is performance coaching. I think this will play a larger role with performers to do well in today's increasingly competitive environment. Just innate talent of average performers may not be able to compete with all the options one has for entertainment. We all know performers who are better at getting booked than providing a quality show. Getting honest feedback and speaking candidly with experts about our performance abilities then allows us to better define focus areas of improvement, as well as personal limitations we must accept. Working a business model congruent with current capabilities is something Mindpro has reinforced while working with me.
Mindpro
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I must say kudos to Cafécheckers for not only speaking about his coaching experience but being so candid and sharing so freely. Knowing him, I know it is for the purpose of helping and allowing others to understand, while shinning a proper light on this topic. Not in theory or perception, but in reality - facts if you will. I have coached many through the last three decades, and I never tell them they can't discuss it on forums or in communities, I always leave it up to them. Most prefer not to for it to be known they a have sought assistance. Others don't want others to know what they are paying their hard earned money to learn. There are also a variety of other good reasons not to prefer to discuss it or have it known.

Many guys here are always asking for some sort of "proof" (only to allow themselves to feel better) which I always have felt is something that doesn't need to be offered. If you can't tell from the info offered, then you are choosing not to. Just as the checkers brothers have read the very same info I have shared here for years - the same info anyone else here can or has read, and were able to see the truth and realities, if other haven't that is there problem.

I hope other here can appreciate and see the effort he is making by sharing his experiences here.


Btw, thomasR, I think coaching allows and opens the platform for much greater artistic efforts as it is simply done so within a framework or structure, yet without compromising artistic freedoms. In my experience it opens up many creative possibilities (as in Cafécheckers situations) and helps bring them to life much more fluently.
Dannydoyle
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Not to nit pick but it needs to be said not all coaches are created equal.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Yes, I also said this on my first post on this page. I agree.
cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Apr 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Not to nit pick but it needs to be said not all coaches are created equal.

This is so very true. Like entertainers, coaches in the field are all self proclaimed, and likely have no official training. As such, they can only perceive the value of their services from their own perspective of what good is and how broad their expertise applies. They are generally their own reference point of what success and failure is.

Like all threads I read, I have paid close attention to what you have offered on this topic Danny. Specifically, the point of the value of failure and the concern that receiving coaching can potentially rob someone of the lessons that failure teaches. One who coaches in a prescriptive and controlling manner can unintentionally do just that.

Regarding speaking out on coaching here, I will admit I had mixed feelings. Mindpro is a purist in everything he does. When I work with him I have his undevided attention. Frankly, I have a vested interest in not spreading the word. Unlike other coaching arrangements people have or seek, Mindpro offers no discount or incentive to students to spread the word or endorse his services. That was never the intent of this thread. Recently there has been a return to vibrancy in the topics being discussed in Tricky Business with content that was of the quality when we first joined. This was a topic I had recent personal experience in and thought would lead to discussing something most performers never consider.
TomBoleware
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I have a question regarding hiring a performance coach, and maybe this is just a guess. I’ve never had a performance coach, but wouldn’t you want someone with a proven track record in performing? Someone you have watched perform many times?

Anyone can talk a good game in business and make suggestions based on mostly education, but unless you are indeed a magician it’s very hard to grasp how a magic performance works.

Not saying Mindpro is not a magician, (lol) just curious if the checker brothers or anyone else here for that matter, has actually seen him perform. Sure he can tell us how good he is, and I don’t mean that in a bad way, just curious if people here would hire a performance coach without having seen him perform. I know the others here that offer coaching does post clips of their shows, and invites them to their shows, etc, so I find the situation with Mindpros very odd.

So that’s my question, and isn’t that a fair question to ask, would you consider hiring a performance coach without actually seeing his work?

Tom
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Mindpro
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There you go again!

It's got to be a comprehension problem, that's the only explanation. First, he never hired a performance coach! While it can be part of his business coaching, he didn't hire a performance coach. Secondly, I've performed for 42 years, just because you haven't seen my performance doesn't mean I haven't performed. Just because you haven't booked thought my agencies doesn't mean they don't exist. You're just looking for more nonsense to start. You don't get on Orpah multiple times, MTV, Farm Aid (78,000 people), tour nationally for 29 years and other venues if you can't perform. This "prove-to-me" mentality of yours absolutely amazes me. It's got to be a comprehension thing or more so a flaming thing.

Those that came to my Las Vegas training event and speaking presentation saw a medley of my performance, t.v. performance and credits, just because you weren't there didn't mean it doesn't exist. They also saw me in person and my real name and history. Just because you weren't there or haven't seen it doesn't mean it didn't exist.

I've never seen your daycare center, but I would never doubt you had it. This is crazy.

He does see my work, repeatedly here over and over again for years. Do you not comprehend his posts either, It was based on my vast amount of information offered here in volumes that he made his decision. Also you are just assuming he hasn't seen me perform. I have regularly talked about how each year I take 3-4 of my students on tour with me to see the entire operation in action. You read the same posts here as others, yet don't seem to want to understand.
Dannydoyle
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It is a very fair question but ironic that you ask it

It is funny how you only ask it in relation to Mindpro. You support EVERY new wanna be guru on this board no matter WHAT his performance is like. You cheer everything no matter what, if it isn't Mindoro. Pretty pathetic and sad really.

You NEVER want credentials, you never want to see performance just if someone says something you call it great no matter what, just so it isn't Mindpro.

So are you saying that this is the new standard we will apply to everyone?

Plus Tom nobody has to prove anything to you. You are not the end user. You don't even perform and I keep wondering why you post here at all. It is possible that as they got to know each other things we are not privy to happened.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Whats also very odd is how he regularly accepts, supports and defends others here that have been busted on being phonies, puffery and many other offenses only to have problem with actual working professionals. This sounds quite intentional to me.
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Apr 21, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
It is possible that as they got to know each other things we are not privy to happened.


Of course and I would say this of every coaching student and consulting client. Trust me, there is much more than offered or discussed here. I'm pretty sure this is exactly why Cafécheckers was hesitant to post such personal details here. Just this exact reason, the same reasons that prevents others form participating here.

As Cafécheckers said above, finally some vibrant and decent topics and participation here, yet look who and what derails it...
thomasR
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It's only being derailed if you let it.... You guys are adults and can ignore Tom if you want to. You both are as much to blame as Tom is in my opinion.
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