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Profile of Mindpro
Thank you, Gerry, johnnyboy, and KC, I appreciate the kind words. While I can see why many would choose not to post here (I have never told them not to or asked then to) or share their stories, due to the scrutiny they may receive and the ringer they seem to get put through, it is always so great knowing my work with these people has so positively affected their performing, business, financial situations, and lifestyles.

In reality, there are/have been hundreds who I have coached over the years, yes, including many magicians, mentalists from here on the Café as well as The Magic Castle, America's Got Talent, Fool Us, pro athletes, and of course many in other aspects of performing and entertainment business owner/operators not in the magic world.

I think things like this thread have exposed others to the possibilities and opportunities that are available through coaching and the many benefits of it, as well as seeing a bit from the inside as to what many here have taken away from it, and of course, the fact that all coaching and coaches are not the same.

Other threads here are discussing other programs and courses and how they almost always fall short of expectations or only offer a quite limited context as compared to coaching and both one on one and group training (as johnnyboy mentioned.) As we see here on a weekly basis, performers (of all types) are not that well-versed in the business of entertainment, heck most aren't really entertainers, just performers, so it only stand to reasons that most of their business knowledge and interests are limited if any. Then on top of that, just by nature, there is the addition of ego and the self aspect that is often so preventative in gaining knowledge, education, and experience. That is why coaching itself (not just my coaching) is so beneficial to many of these performers, it can help get then to where they want quicker and easier than attempting to do it n their own, without the missteps, wrong paths, and pitfalls they often experience on their own. Ever try to do something you don't like or are not interested in on your own? The results are sloppy, all over the place and minimal at best. One of the things I hear from so many is how the structure and systems my coaching provides in their business males such a difference - how this alone has made the world of difference in their business. Heck, most don't even operate their performing or understand what a professional truly is as a business or performer when I get them, so that alone along with the initial foundational elements sets most up for success by itself. Then having such personal education and training based on their own location, markets, level of performance, and so many other personal factors usually is unlike anything accessible anywhere else or by any other means.

And while we don't discuss it here much there are other aspects that make a huge difference for non-performing, entertainment-based business owners as well.

I think these stories, other than trying to help thomasR from perhaps gaining a better understanding of coaching, are good to share as others can learn a lot just from how coaching has impacted and affected their lives and business and for many, overall personal fulfillment as well.

I do find it odd how those that share sharing their stories and experiences are being asked to justify their need or decision or reasons for coaching. I think one of the misnomers is the thoughts of "why do you feel you need coaching" and the false belief that they could just learn it on their own, or that the information and content I teach is available elsewhere. While each client's reasons may appear different, they are all really the same and quite similar. We operate in a business and industry where there is no formal structure, education or gatekeeper, so anytime anyone who has little or no experience tries to navigate the unknown by themselves, that is a poor combination. I applaud anyone who seeks training, education, and coaching to assist them in actually and truly learning the business of entertainment. As we see here, there are many that "think" they know and can figure it out on their own, and worse yet turn to other fellow performers who know just as little as them, so it very quickly becomes the uneducated and blind leading the blind, which is a recipe for minimal progress if any, usually more damaging and preventative progress than anything. So, it is good to hear when pride and ego get put aside to allow true growth and progress to occur from a true point of desire to learn, grow, and wanting to know what they don't know, and a commitment to learning actual industry operations. The benefits are long-serving and much more than just financial.

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Profile of Mindpro
For those following this thread and wanting to get a better understanding of entertainer and entertainment business coaching, here is another great example that was expereinced this past week...

One of the things I regularly hear from my coaching students and clients is when they see, witness, or actually experience something that they have learned about or that has been discussed here on the Café or in my coaching and training.

While I won't say too much and prefer to let Cafécheckers share his insights and experiences if he chooses to, he very recently had the opportunity to be part of something I've discussed here and actually argued with a couple of members here about over the years - and that is the vast difference between knowledge and experience.

He recently experienced this exact scenario first-hand in a real-world situation, and everything I have shared on the topic he saw, experienced, and found himself in the middle first-hand and it was riveting, eye-opening, disappointing on so many levels, and yet a real-world, true lesson in understanding and witnessing the difference between knowledge and experience.

I have always talked about the importance of experience and how it can't be faked or rushed. Experience is real and while there is no substitute for actual real-world experience, experience is often misperceived and if the experience is misperceived or not actually as it appears it can be very limiting itself and can stun growth and progression.

I see this a lot with longtime performers - the guys that will tell you they've been doing this 15, 20, 25, 35 years or more. Because of the time they've put in they somehow believe their experience has elevated them to that of "been there, done, that, I know it all" (or at least very much).

I have often talked about how many of these people have a false sense of status and that much of the time they think this experience is equated with knowledge when it is not. That the knowledge they "think" they have as a result of experience" is often jaded, very limiting, not real, and often blatantly incorrect.

False knowledge is not the same as real, actual knowledge. Thinking you know something is in no way the same as actually knowing something.

I have always said the right and proper knowledge is more important than just experience. Experience without the proper knowledge can be preventative, a detriment to your business, and an improper basis from which to base things to proceed forward.

Knowledge is always the key first and foremost. Not what you THINK is knowledge about something, but the actual real knowledge, without prejudice or misperception - the actual true knowledge.

Only when the proper knowledge is in place, accompanied by experience based on this actual knowledge will you ever have the right perception, mentalities, and true understanding and can true progression occur.

Cafécheckers found himself in a situation where he was side by side with these other long-time performers "with tons of experience" yet he soon found himself elevated far beyond every single one of these performers because of the knowledge he had obtained, knows and practices. It was a great example of how knowledge is far more significant and important than most ever realize. How experience without knowledge is often just self-inflating misinformation and false generated perception.

He immediately contacted me within minutes of seeing and experiencing it first-hand. He was blown away with the accuracy of this understanding and how sad it was seeing and experiencing it first hand. Also, a very surprising result of this was the long-time established performers with years of experience longer than Cafécheckers has been alive, saw the amazing success Cafécheckers was having before their eyes, and yet still had no clue as to why this young entertainer was experiencing the success they were watching before them.

After all of this, Cafécheckers has now seen and experienced the major difference and benefits (and profitability) of knowledge first, then experience, while every single one of the long-time pros (legends in their market) left there still not having a clue about their missing knowledge or why (the proper knowledge) Cafécheckers was enjoying the runaway success they were seeing before their very eyes.

It was also an example of how success in entertainment or speaking is in the business behind the performance, which again none of these long-time guys had a clue about.

Caféchekers has a busy week with I think 10 shows this week, so I wanted to share this experience before we got too far away from this event and experience. Hopefully, when he gets time he can chime in on this as well as it was another great breakthrough for him on something so important, yet something so many never experience or understand.

This was a very exciting experience that I was so glad to be able to share with a coaching student, and more so a great demonstration of something he could only get through the coaching experience.
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Profile of thomasR
One of the bands I used to tour with was discussing on the bus how mad they were that a promoter wanted them to open for a newer band that currently had a number 1. “We’ve been a band for 10 years, we aren’t opening for them, they only have 1 album out.” This was the mindset of a Grammy nominated rock band, that had pretty good business sense over all (well naturally... they hired me Smile. Lol. ).

In that case it wasn’t experience vs. Knowledge so much but still reminded me of that.
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Profile of cafecheckers
Yes, this truly has been an interesting week. I want to be respectful in an open forum, so I don’t want to share too many specifics - but I am encountering exactly what Mindpro described. Individuals who think they have a similar business model to mine when in fact it is not even close. Mindpro offered outstanding advice to me that allowed me to not only recognize the difference, but also advised me on how to avoid making HUGE mistakes regarding my interactions with them. Innocent enough sounding discussions can really damage ones business and reputation without you even suspecting it.

I am now seeing so clearly why it is important to understand the true needs of the markets I pursue and not my (or any entertainer’s) perceived needs. I also now appreciate the need to stay current on the evolving needs of a market and not simply rely on historical trends. While this may seem obvious and simple, it took me a while to completely digest the nuances of these concepts.
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Profile of cafecheckers
I should add that it is rewarding for me to see the return on the investment I have made in educating myself. As Mindpro said, there is a difference between knowledge and experience. So many people are talented in their craft but lack the vision and direction that effective education can provide. Experience can create certain opportunities, but it can also blind you from other ones. This can lead to low/no growth and at some point decline in income.
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Profile of Mindpro
On Jan 30, 2020, Cafécheckers wrote:
So many people are talented in their craft but lack the vision and direction that effective education can provide. Experience can create certain opportunities, but it can also blind you from other ones. This can lead to low/no growth and at some point decline in income.

Exactly. So many magicians and performers will never understand this. This is why I always say the foundational level is soooo important. So many just want to get to the performance, and never give this vision or foundational creating the attention success requires. Worse yet, they do what they want, what THEY THINK should be done and that is the exact point where limiting and a governor in their success begins. They tend to build their business (if that at all) based on their own uninformed, uneducated thoughts, preferences, and beliefs, no actual market knowledge and requirements, no entertainment business knowledge, yet can't figure out how they somehow became 40 and have never had real success (other than having their own self-employed job) and are still struggling, have no savings, are living a sub-standard lifestyle, paycheck to paycheck, no money for retirement, and so on. Again, I see it literally every day.

Then they become 50, 55,50 and an age where they should be able to retire (and are doing the same performance stuff that has been flat and stale for 25 years or more) and are now looked at as that "aged" performer that now gets fewer and fewer bookings each year, and yet, they still can't figure out why and don't understand it. They always blame it on their age. When all of this could have been avoided, they could be comfortable in retirement, and have a nice savings and nest egg, and could have a business they could pass on or sell for a few hundred thousand dollars. This is possible for even part-time performers and businesses.

Unfortunately, it is a choice many make, rather intentionally or unintentionally but it is the most common route for most.

I think this is one of the greatest benefits of this entire thread is not just identifying it, but also seeing your learning and educational journey and breakthroughs along the way. You are right, it is very plain and clear to see when you have the proper knowledge.

Yes, by all means, there are benefits to experience, but (few ever think about) what if that experience has lead you to seeing and doing things wrong or incorrectly, self-sabbatagedly, and you simply are just repeating this misperception, errors or bad habits over and over again, year after year?

It is this wrong or incorrect perception and false-believed self-knowledge that is so damaging. You saw the sadness, yet it is quite common, and yet these guys will talk somehow with authority and their self-perceived, self-appointed status (ever been to a magic club meeting?), which in reality makes it even sadder. And as I've said, unfortunately, I see it with magicians more than any other type of performer (comedians would be second). I believe this is due to many reasons which I won't get into here.

The good news, really great news is you have accomplished the harder part which is learning of this and being aware of this. That is the first preventative step. You also saw it first-hand and experienced it directly which can be very riveting.

There is no substitute for the right and proper knowledge, followed by years of experience based on the right knowledge. I can almost assure you that if you see a struggling or frustrated performer, it is always directly because of this. The only rare exception is when someone truly and completely knows this and has this knowledge, and chooses not to take the action to do anything with it, which is extremely rare as it is almost impossible once you have this knowledge not to want to do anything with it.

On one hand, I'm sorry you had to see this and got yourself into the middle of it. One the other hand it is a lesson and experience that you will remember and will shape both you and your business for the rest of your life!

Earlier in this thread and in other threads we talked about learning the entertainment business on the truest level, how it differs from conventional business greatly, and on a deeper level. I remember several here saying things about doubting or not believing in a deeper level or I spoke of students I have that are currently in their 8th or 10th year of coaching that are learning the business on these deeper levels and many failed to believe or understand this. This is just one of those things, although not very deep it is definitely beneath the surface and scope of most's knowledge, awareness, and understanding.
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I get asked about this thread often so I thought since we are at the one-year point of Cafécheckersgoing full-time it was time for an update.

It's hard to believe Cafécheckers has only been doing this full-time for a year, as so many exciting and progressive things have occurred. For those who haven't followed this thread or are not up to reading the 22+ pages of people questioning the need or purpose for coaching, challenging Cafécheckers decision to choose me to be his coach, the long-time disbelief of the proprietary content I offer that is not available anywhere else, and of course the value and return of investment in coaching, I will give you a quick 60-second recap.

In the fall of 2016, I made an offer to help a Café member who was at wits-end with his performing business and lack of progress and bookings. I felt I could help him in as little as 30 days and I made an incredibly inexpensive offer to him. While he declined, many others here contacted me via PM and asked if they could take advantage of the same offer. I was quite surprised by this and wasn't prepared for the interest. I decided to try it and so Cafécheckers was one of those that I accepted after going through my application process.

We worked together for the 30 days and he chose to continue and roll that into a longer coaching arrangement. He was still a student at the time, yet wanted to learn, grow, and continue his entertainment business part-time while still in school and for preparation for going full-time upon graduating.

He wanted to be/remain a kid's and family entertainer but made it clear that he did not want to do kid's parties.

Last May he went full-time and we are now one year later. And what a year it has been. In short, he has gone from a part-time performer with little experience in the business aspects of performing and operating a performing business (he was part of a duo with his older brother who handled the business side of their operation. He left the act to attend med school, which left Caféchekcers to have to pick up the business aspects to the business, which didn't come as naturally or easily to him), to now having a business operation that has let him rise to the top of the 3 performance markets he specializes in.

Not only has he surpassed the top longtime performers in these markets, but his success has been noticed and reveled by these performers who after 30+ years as the top performers in his market, are now coming to him trying to understand what they are witnessing and asking him for assistance with their performing business. He has had continual growth from the very beginning of us working together. Other top kid's performers outside of his market (and well known nationally) are now coming to him for knowledge, advice, and insight.

It has been amazing to watch. I must say, as we all know, this year was unlike anything we have experienced in the entertainment business in a long time, if ever.

Immediately upon graduation, he embarked on a 65+ date summer tour over the next 12 weeks in one of his markets while preparing and marketing for another of his prime markets coinciding immediately with the completion of the tour. While he worked both of these markets before we began working together, I can not tell you how deep into market training, knowledge and understanding we went to allow him to learn markets he previously "thought" he knew, to having the knowledge and understanding of perhaps maybe only the top 5% in the industry and country. He'll be the first to tell you about my concepts of going deeper and he didn't know what or how much he didn't know, lol. His knowledge and growth have been absolutely amazing, literally.

He has learned in his first year what most full-time performers don't know or perhaps maybe are just learning on a surface-level in about years 7 or 8 of operating a full-time entertainment business. I hope he comes and shares his experience and maybe will provide some more details, as I do not want to say too many specifics and violate our coach-client confidentiality.

He has gone from a local performer to now getting national interests, while much of his work is now reaching an international worldwide audience.

Many seem to know about or focus on the money spent (investment, vs. the return). It is hard to measure the full return as many things we do are for the larger, long-term picture, but we also understand there must be immediate measurable returns as well.

I will say this, we have built several six-figure revenue sources within his business which together can easily create a million or multi-million dollar business in a very short amount of time. (Btw, no you won't find these businesses on the internet if you search (much like most of my businesses) but not only has this been established, but I will also tell you he has also learned something most performers struggle with and often never achieve - he's seen and learned how to scale his business for larger and long-term success.

All of this in just his first year! I can't tell you how amazing that is. We are so involved in the many aspects to learning and operating an entertainment business that we don't usually stop to celebrate everything we've accomplished, how much he has learned, the experience he has gained first-hand, sometimes it is good to take a moment at the one-year point to see it from above, reflect on it, and actually celebrate such accomplishments.

And, I must say, we've only just begun. So many exciting things are happening for this upcoming year, in spite of COVID-19, as he will be growing and expanding his business during this time, while most others are struggling and trying to figure out how to survive, or what's next.

This is all the result of being open and willing to learn and understand, being able to realize what you think you know may be incomplete and in many cases completely wrong or incorrect, understanding the importance of gaining both knowledge and experience, how to properly use and utilize this knowledge and experience (something most don't do or understand), the importance of learning your target markets from the inside and on a deeper level than most others, understanding the difference between entertainment business and conventional business, and taking the proper and necessary actions to achieve this. He has also learned timing which has been an important factor in his success.

He has basically learned an MBA in entertainment business far beyond what he learned in college and his degree, as I'm sure he'd be the first to tell you.

Congratulations on a great and successful year. I wish this to anyone seeking personal coaching as it can be the foundation of your entertainment business, it can expedite your learning curve, implementation plan, and the path to your desired success, and most of all it can be the single-most best investment you can make in yourself, your business and your future.

Great job!
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Profile of charliecheckers
Thanks for the kind words, Mindpro! It is hard to believe a year has passed, yet when I read through the post above, it made me realize all the things that were compressed into that year. Little did I know that my first year would also be met with a challenge like a pandemic that completely shut down live performances in the markets I serve for an indefinite period of time. While this really disrupted my business and plans, there was never a time I felt more fortunate to have Mindpro as a business coach. While these are uncharted waters we are in, it really helps to have someone with distinguished and diversified entertainment Business experience. I have had to really stretch myself in ways I could not have imagined, in order to look for a sources of revenue that would serve me in the short term without compromising my brand and future. Having someone to serve as a coach through this process allowed me to see both my strengths and weaknesses much more clearly as well as opportunities that were availing themselves to me in this time of crisis. Positioning, branding, marketing, and sales experience I had developed and discussed with Mindpro greatly assisted me in making a transition.

Interestingly, while much of this is new, I believe I am in the best place I have ever been in from a business outlook perspective. I am already involved in things I hoped to be doing years from now. Time off from live performances as well as working with someone who knows my capabilities and has a big picture perspective has allowed for it to happen much more quickly than I could have imagined. I still have a long way to go and learn each and every day.
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