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Mindpro
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Quote:
On Mar 23, 2017, thomasR wrote:
MindPro..

There has to be a goal or goals for hiring a coach. If there isn't a goal, there is no need to hire a coach. So me asking "what were your goals and why did you feel you needed a coach to attain them" does not make me have a narrow perception of coaching.


For most people, it is to learn (know) what it is they they realize they don't know. It's for information and education. Knowledge. Often knowledge they can not get elsewhere. That would be the primary goal. Then followed of course as how to apply and execute it specifically as it pertains to them, their needs, markets and individual aspects.

"Everything you wrote is 100% biased since you are a coach" is incorrect. I am a student and an entertainer first and foremost. My coaching, consulting, training and mentoring is only a byproduct or result of these other areas. In reality I am an entertainer, agent and agency owner, talent broker, producer, promoter, media representative first and foremost.

Those that are part of my community know that NONE of this information was available when I was seeking, searching and needing it. I was mentored by some of the best in the business with the understanding that I would someday use this knowledge and information to help others with the same interests and struggles that I once had. I have never forgotten this and have made every effort to keep my word to these guys (and ladies).

I was also a coach long before today's popular trend of "coaches" based in little or minimal experience or solely on their own personal experience. As we have seen here, guys are becoming coaches, gurus and experts after having done only one single performance! In reality I make very little money for what I offer and especially for the information I share and the education I offer. So no, I do not speak from a biased perspective of just a coach, I must disagree.

Coaching is only a small part of it, in actuality the training, mentoring and consulting becomes the greatest areas most are seeking and find the most beneficial.
cafecheckers
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Quote:
On Mar 22, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
To me its not much different from going to college or a trade school to get the best education you can to excel and position yourself with the best chance for education, knowledge and success in their chosen profession.


This is exactly the way I view it. I believe that I owed it to myself to obtain a deeper understanding of the whole industry. I find it to be a fasinating way to learn because unlike a college ciuriculum, it involves running a real business, my business.
WDavis
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I rarely post here, but frequently read the threads.

This thread has quite a number of misconceptions that have lead to 3 pages of confusion and debate.

First let me state where I come from to support my explanation for the rest of my post.

I've made my corporate career working in investment banking and management consulting. I've been involved in the acquisition of multinational multi-billion dollar corporations to assisting non-profits and even sole proprietorships get started.

ThomasR - I interpret from your posts that you are combining mentor, coach, and consultant. Others are and agree with you while others partially agree or view them all as separate and distinct.

Personally, through my experience they are separate and distinct. A coach, will provide training to help a client achieve a specific goal or target for a fee, a mentor operates as a sounding board to provide council and guidance from her experience at no charge. A consultant will-for a price-fill the knowledge gap for the client through advisory services. The key distinction is the advisory services are supported by a work product that says what to do, with facts to support why, and how to do it.

I don't blame anyone for the confusion because many as we move downstream to the small business, individuals are overwhelmed with misinformation from hack info marketers, telling them how to be a "consultant." These guys mix and match these three functions and use them as buzzwords to catch individuals attentions.

Now in my experience, a consultant is closer to a doctor, you tell us your symptoms and we will diagnose you and provide a prescription. A coach is closer to a physical therapist, they show you how to perform activities then work with you to ensure you are doing it properly. A mentor is closest to the old grandma who has her home remedies to cure specific problems that she has encountered and knows works for her.

A mentor cannot provide you the depth and breadth of service of a consultant just like grandmas cures aren't the same as a dr prescription. Sometimes firms can provide both consulting and coaching (read as training) and compensation can be a percent of profits to align interests, but those are sold separately and aligning interests are usually done by smaller shops to "sell" the customer on the idea of bein partners in success.

I hope that clarifies the difference in terms.

Now why would anyone hire a consultant?
As was said most people can do the work themselves so why pay someone? To save time and/or moneyFor example, a lawyer is a consultant on legal matters, given enough time you could draft up your own contract and/or agreements that would be valid in your legal jurisdiction. But it costs you time and potentially money. While hiring the lawyer provides you a work product supported by facts and experience potentially at a cheaper all in cost (time money and risk)

We hire coaches to help develop the techniques taught and hold us accountable that we do the techniques.
Neither can guarantee success- no technique or advisory service can do that.

Hope that helps.

Walter
thomasR
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WDavis... Thanks for this. I'm not sure which post led you to think that I had mixed all of these up... but what you wrote out is pretty much what I thought initially before diving into this thread.

I've had a mentor (he was a manager for bands, and owned several music festivals... everything had to be translated from the pre-youtube music industry. So I can relate to the Gramma with stories and old cures thought...) and I would absolutely hire a consultant. And as I said in a previous thread... perhaps that consultant would turn into a regular consultation that would resemble coaching to some.

What I would have no interest in is hiring a coach to inspire me, and hold me accountable to practices they think are best for me. If I need a consultant to help me map out a plan of action, so be it. But I'm fully capable of following through with a business plan on my own. And on the days when I'm not inspired... I can give myself my own pep talk.

It does sound like MindPro's coaching is more than the traditional sense of the word that you described.
Dannydoyle
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I sort of see the coach thing as a personal trainer. Yep you can have the equipment and know what to do but he gets you doing it. At least that seems to be the claim.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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A famous dead man once said that if you can’t explain something in a few words you probably don’t understand it yourself.

In a small business setting I would describe a coach as an ‘acting partner’

The coach comes in with a fresh set of eyes and says if it were me I would do this…


Tom
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thomasR
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In a small business setting I would call that a consultant.
TomBoleware
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A consultant provides information. But often is no more than a ‘yes’ man.

A coach promotes self-discovery and builds on the client's strengths.

One promises information. The other promises results.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

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Dannydoyle
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So now you claim a coach promises results?

Now this is getting ridiculous.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
WDavis
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
A famous dead man once said that if you can’t explain something in a few words you probably don’t understand it yourself.

In a small business setting I would describe a coach as an ‘acting partner’

The coach comes in with a fresh set of eyes and says if it were me I would do this…


Tom



Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
A consultant provides information. But often is no more than a ‘yes’ man.

A coach promotes self-discovery and builds on the client's strengths.

One promises information. The other promises results.

Tom


Tom you contradict yourself. I've bolded your contradiction.
Also, both provide results. a work product is a result, but the hyperbole you are using to imply successful outcome is impossible to guarantee or to use your word promise.
TomBoleware
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Not contradiction, they do both of those you have in bold.

Well Yes, a good coach can promise success. I certainly wouldn’t hire one that wouldn’t. Would you? Smile

It’s not like buying a book where you just looking for information.

You hire a coach to see results. Now true they don't come aboard to do all the work for you, but the goal
is to see that you do succeed. That is the job. You not buying a book from them you buying a service.

Tom
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Mindpro
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It seems like few here are really understanding the concept and tend to have their own subjective view rather than what it actually is. Too bad for the OP that seemed to actually want to get into a discussion about the benefits of such and earning from others experiences, and how it worked for others, not to debate what it is, should be or ask for opinions if you would ever do it.

For the life of me I'll never understand why guys chime in only to offer opinions when they have no experience with the topic. It would be different if the OP said, "I'd like to get your opinions on coaching." He didn't. The topic was for those with actual experience the way I understood it.

He seemed to be enjoying his progress and wanted to start a conversation with others who have done so, as well to share EXPERIENCES!
Personally I applaud him for doing so as many who utilize coaching, consulting or mentorship may not want others to they have done so for a variety of reasons.
TomBoleware
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Mindpro,

All I’m saying is a coach is hired to produce results.

If they can’t do that, you don’t need them.

You agree with that?

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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Mindpro
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No, not always. Sometimes it's for critique, other times to gain another perspective from someone with more experience, and other times it's just to have someone with knowledge and experience to bounce ideas off of to see if its viable. I get many that come to me just to identify what they are (may be) doing wrong or not knowing what to do. It is about information and knowledge if anything. Ultimately it would be nice if that information can lead to results, but its not always for the purpose of results.

That's why I said, it often crosses over into consulting, training and mentorship and borderline business psychiatry.
TomBoleware
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I agree a coach wears many hats. And I agree in some cases you can just recommend a book.
But you shouldn’t be charging a coaching fee if that is ALL you do.

Bottom line better be 'results' or the 'coach' hasn’t done his job.

Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

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Mindpro
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
But you shouldn’t be charging a coaching fee if that is ALL you do.

Tom


Of course not. I don't know any coaches that would do that. If that was ALL you do it wouldn't really be coaching.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
I agree a coach wears many hats. And I agree in some cases you can just recommend a book.
But you shouldn’t be charging a coaching fee if that is ALL you do.

Bottom line better be 'results' or the 'coach' hasn’t done his job.

Tom


Wow. Just wow. It is amazing how many myths you choose to promote.

One can argue that Phil Jackson is probably the best coach in the history of the idea. Here is a quote from this article.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/26916......e-is-not

"It is a common story in sports.

Often, it's a parent. Occasionally, it's a friend.

An inordinate amount of times, it's a coach or mentor.

Someone wants it more for the athlete than the athlete wants it for himself.

You can't just download someone else's vision for achievement, greatness or even teamwork into a particularly gifted body.

Yet the dream that you can push and prod or show and sell remains so enchanting…until there comes a point where there's no more advice to give, no more frustration to stand and then no more chance for the dream to come true."

If Phil Jackson can't guarantee results how can anyone Tom?
Danny Doyle
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TomBoleware
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Danny, let me borrow your exact words from page one of this thread:

Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
There is a huge difference in sports and business.



Yes it is amazing, how you like to attack for no reason.
Tom
Do What Others Do And You Will Become Average

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Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
Danny, let me borrow your exact words from page one of this thread:

Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
There is a huge difference in sports and business.



Yes it is amazing.

Tom

Show me a coach Tom who GUARANTEES RESULTS.

All I am asking you is to back up a statement. You won't. No attack, just wanting to see it.

Also show me a consultant who is nothing but a "yes man". Heck in EVERY company I have ever worked with when a consultant comes in it is with the specific purpose of turning things about so that the "yes men" are seeing things differently.

Good consultants are not yes men. Not by a long shot. Yet you continue to spread misconceptions.

A consultant who is a yes man does not work much.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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As I said, people have some distorted perceptions of this concept.
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