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RobertSmith
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Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Oh, there's that and 99.99999% of what any magic "coach" could tell you can be found for free searching the Café or even this cool new website called Google.

-Robert


I think this is an opinion or perception of someone who truly doesn't understand or has not experienced working with a coach. While I am not a "magic coach" I work with many magicians and I can assure you 95% of my core content will not be found from a Google search and most not previously published or available elsewhere.


So, what? You're like some sage who discovered a secret that no one else has?
TomBoleware
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Danny, just google, “Business coaching that offers a guarantee.” And you will find page after page that offers some sort of guarantee.

In years past the ones I hired guaranteed the fee back quickly or you got your money back.

Any honest business coach would certainly not want your money if they didn’t help the business. But hey, maybe magic is different and you just hope for the best.

Mindpro seems to promise a lot, so maybe he could tell us how his guarantee works. Or do we just take a gamble with him.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
lou serrano
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This thread started out very promising, and once again it's deteriorated like so many others. People wonder why this part of the Café is dead. One only needs to look at this thread to see why.

I don't know why I even bother chiming in anymore. It's time for me to once again take a sabbatical.

Have fun debating in circles everyone.
thomasR
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Lou... I really liked your feedback in this thread. Since you are both a coach, and have hired a coach, you had some unique insight.
TomBoleware
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Same here Lou, I enjoy your posts here.
Sorry for my part of the distraction.

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
thomasR
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On Mar 24, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
Too bad for the OP that seemed to actually want to get into a discussion about the benefits of such and earning from others experiences, and how it worked for others, not to debate what it is, should be or ask for opinions if you would ever do it.


In checkers first post he wrote "Being that not many here refer to coaches or coaching advice they have received, it makes me think not many have hired coaches. I wonder what everyone's thoughts are on the topic of utilizing coaching to advance ones business?"

Seemed like a pretty open question. I think everyone stayed on that topic. It seems like several people's definition of a Coach is quite different.
Dannydoyle
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I like Lou's posts as well. I just wish he would post other than when he has something to pitch.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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Http://www.schoolofcoachingmastery.com/c......arantees

Came up on page one of your suggested search Tom. Go figure.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Danny, That one is for ‘Life Coaching’ not business. Most all the others on that page suggest that any decent business
coach will offer a return on investment guarantee.

Same page:
http://www.actioncoach.com/actioncoach-guarantee/

http://resultsguaranteedcoaching.com/

https://mauimastermind.com/business-coac......arantee/


Another one on that page reads:
“Everyone needs a coach... with no feedback, no coaching, there’s just no way to improve.” --Bill Gates

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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"This week, a new life coach asked me whether she should offer a money-back guarantee. Some life coaches (as well as other personal coaches, like business and executive coaches) offer money-back guarantees to make it easier to close sales. The thinking is that few people ever ask for their money back, so you'll increase your sales and make more money.

That approach makes sense if you're selling flashlights, but if you're pouring your heart and soul into a personalized relationship that leads to extraordinary results for your coaching clients, the unintended consequences may outweigh any extra sales you make."

From the first paragraph Tom. It is right there in the second sentence in parentheses.

But they guarantee VALUE, not the RESULTS Tom. See the difference?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, lou serrano wrote:
I don't know why I even bother chiming in anymore. It's time for me to once again take a sabbatical.


That's because the affiliate offer ends today. (Oops it was extended for 24 hours so you'll have to hang in here one more day, lol.)
TomBoleware
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Most of the guarantees there read like this:

“We Guarantee to get results, and that you’ll be able to “Find our Fee” in your business within 17-weeks of ActionCOACH coaching your company … or your coaching is FREE.”

“We guarantee – in WRITING – that the program will pay for itself 200% within the first 12 months of working together or you’ll get a full, complete, and TOTAL refund!”


Sounds like results or money back to me.


Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Mindpro
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Oh, there's that and 99.99999% of what any magic "coach" could tell you can be found for free searching the Café or even this cool new website called Google.

-Robert


I think this is an opinion or perception of someone who truly doesn't understand or has not experienced working with a coach. While I am not a "magic coach" I work with many magicians and I can assure you 95% of my core content will not be found from a Google search and most not previously published or available elsewhere.


So, what? You're like some sage who discovered a secret that no one else has?


Quite frankly, yes, lol. Since I have been told I am the only member in all of he Café that has professional industry experience and success in all six areas of the entertainment industry, I would say that to be true. Which is also why I am extremely selective with whom I share this experience and knowledge. Trust me, and feel free to ask any of my students and clients, you will not find it on Google and in all my years here much of it has never been discussed unless I bring a small bit of it into the discussion. Its only secret when you don't know it. You don't know what you don't know.
WDavis
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Tom,

Your guarantee is actually a clever marketing ploy to promote a protection against lawsuits as a client benefit. The majority of state courts will honor that guarantee/clause as a cap against losses.

To bring this thread back on to a discussion of coaches and experiences using them. In the small business advisory perspective, Mindpro states briefly, but in actuality is a significant factor, business psychiatrist. I've always refered to it as a marriage counselor. It is significant enough for the SME market, I feel it bears repeating.

Additionally, I personally wouldn't hire a coach, under retainer, for general purpose help over my business needs. I feel that's a waste of resources for the business owner that benefits the coach. I find coaching is effective when used in staff/individual training in a specific matter. Done this way it is usually acheaper and more effective use of business assets. Finally, all coaches and businesses need to interview eachother to see if there is a fit-both technically and psychologically. I have no qualms turning down a prospect because I didn't like them or their business model and other times because I didn't have the skillset needed to satisfy their need.
cafecheckers
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A few thoughts to add:

Coaching- I learned a lot from this thread with respect to how the term "coach" can mean different things to different people. Probably much in the same way the term "magician" might conjure up diverse ranges within the term. For me, I did not get hung up on the term because I knew with a high degree of certainty what services I was going to receive from Mindpro. If I was google searching for such services, the terms might be more important. Mindpro offers much more than "coaching" in the narrow interpretation of the term. In fact he offers all the associated services people discussed here. That was not surprising to me, given his posts here over the years as well as the description in his terms for the two agreements I made with him. Likewise, I believe I have a good idea what Lou and others here are offering. Therefore the exact term used was not as important.

Phil Jackson - that is a great example of someone who draws the best from players more talented than he is. He puts them in positions to win. He does not simply show people what he did to be a successful player. It doesn't always work out, as the article points out, but that is what I seek in a coach.

Lou - just the other day you were posting here trying to have some fun at my brother's expense ("I'm confused as well. I'm wondering what would happen if the coach riding a train was also a chef?" Lou Serrano) Now you are leaving this thread and Tricky Business because the quality is not up to your standards? Wow! It really makes me wonder if there is not some truth to what Mindpro posted at the top of this page.

Rather than get caught up on terms, maybe a discussion on ways one can go about expanding their universe of knowledge (getting to "know what you don't know") as well as ways to learn from others would achieve more. Mentoring has been discussed - advice on that topic would be welcome. Likewise, if people have worked with consultants.
thomasR
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Hey now... if anyone gets the credit / blame for making the train joke it's me!

And to take your advice and get back on topic... Mentors. I did have a mentor when I started my entertainment business (about 10 years ago). He was the owner of several music festivals, and managed bands and artists out of Nashville. I started my company in order to produce theatrical circus / variety shows.. (the dream was to create a modern take on a traveling vaudeville show.. the reality... I self promoted and lost money on theatre shows and got booked mostly by cities for various festivals in their downtowns and parks. A few school and college shows, a few company picnics / conferences.).

Back to mentors... While my mentor did not have experience in circus or theatrical shows... He had years and years of experience in managing national touring acts, and booking acts and finding buyers / sponsors for festivals and events. He was able to give me very realistic advice on what to expect, and what to not expect when just starting out.

I've never hired a consultant, but I would be open to that in the right situation.
Mindpro
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On Mar 24, 2017, WDavis wrote:

To bring this thread back on to a discussion of coaches and experiences using them. In the small business advisory perspective, Mindpro states briefly, but in actuality is a significant factor, business psychiatrist. I've always referred to it as a marriage counselor. It is significant enough for the SME market, I feel it bears repeating.


Yes, this is very true and a very strong part of it. I didn't mean to downplay it, I just figured many wouldn't truly understand it to the degree it truly exists (or would twist it away from its original intent and meaning). It is a huge part of almost every one of my students and clients' relationships. Relationships, is also a huge part of this as well. These two very much go hand in hand. Well stated.
TomBoleware
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WDavis, you are absolutely right that the guarantee is sometimes used as a clever marketing tool.
But some offer it because they simply believe in their product and are able to deliver what they promise.

Still that does not change the FACT that many do indeed offer a guarantee. I just wanted to clear up what
Danny said and insists that NOBODY offers a guarantee. It's clear he has no idea what he is talking about
and just wants to disagree on this.

So I won't ask mindpro again about his guarantee because it's clear that he does not guarantee his work.

Anyways,

Tom
"Entrepreneurs are willing to work 80 hours a week to avoid working 40 hours a week"--Lori Greiner

www.tomboleware.com
Dannydoyle
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For the reasons in that article it is STUPID to guarantee results and as has been pointed out is marketing to people and nothing more. Much the same way that multi level marketing sells poisin or lie about how effective it is.

Anyways.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RobertSmith
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Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 24, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 21, 2017, Mindpro wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 20, 2017, RobertSmith wrote:
Oh, there's that and 99.99999% of what any magic "coach" could tell you can be found for free searching the Café or even this cool new website called Google.

-Robert


I think this is an opinion or perception of someone who truly doesn't understand or has not experienced working with a coach. While I am not a "magic coach" I work with many magicians and I can assure you 95% of my core content will not be found from a Google search and most not previously published or available elsewhere.


So, what? You're like some sage who discovered a secret that no one else has?


Quite frankly, yes, lol. Since I have been told I am the only member in all of he Café that has professional industry experience and success in all six areas of the entertainment industry, I would say that to be true. Which is also why I am extremely selective with whom I share this experience and knowledge. Trust me, and feel free to ask any of my students and clients, you will not find it on Google and in all my years here much of it has never been discussed unless I bring a small bit of it into the discussion. Its only secret when you don't know it. You don't know what you don't know.



"Trust me," says the anonymous source.

You do you.
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