People need to believe.

There are now even scientific studies trying to prove that things like “God”, “Faith” and “Hope” are biochemical impulses oriented to help survival.

In a world wich is becoming more dangerous, life is more and more uncertain, and believe becomes more necessary.

There is no way to fight agains that. In a way, no one has the right to do it. Before being performers, we should be human. Don’t take away people’s hope if you have noting to give instead. I’m sorry to say this but “self proclaimed truth” is not enough.

I think is a healthy policy not to judge adience’s fantasies. Every one of us, as individual, has the right to not sell lies, but no one has the right to impose “truth”.

I don't know, but I used to work with a guy who claimed to be "in touch with the spirits".

He attended fayres and gave performances, but all I ever saw from him when he used his "gift" on me was a self-serving moron who abusued whatever talent he had.

That seemed to cloud my judgement of him and the profession as a whole.

I just grew to dispise people giving small crumbs of false hope to people who have lost loved ones because they need to know a reason "why".

Erm - I'm getting a little preachy now, so I'm just going to shut up and think of Phoenix Nights again...

Wisdom...you certainly are a breath of fresh air..seems I've experienced that fresh air sometime ago also..it has been missed

Best thoughts,
John Smetana

P & T say it best $£$%£$%$, yes gullibility and the need to "believe" may be burned into our genetic code, but so is ranting about the stupid people and exposing $£$%£$%$. In a perfect world there wouldn't be these "Charlatans", but a perfect world would be boring, and our profesion would not be what it is. Wisdom has hit the nail on the head, psychic's will go on scamming, and sceptic's will go on complaining about the stupid people who allow these cheats to get away with murder.


Derren Brown clearly states he has no psychic powers, he uses suggestion, magic, and psychology. Let's not drag his good name into this psychic debate.

John. You are obviously terribly psychic yourself. I think I may have met you in a past life.

I must say that your photograph makes you look very wise. You should probably be using my name. I will let you borrow it. I have many to spare.

Actually, Dario - the people who go to see psychics are not stupid. I said they were "silly" because I wanted to be facetious for the sake of amusement.

I respect each and every one of them. They are not stupid or silly. They are simply vulnerable.

The extremely wicked psychics take advantage of this vulnerability and will fleece their victims for all they are worth.

The nice shut eye psychics will be full of compassion and not fleece the victims. Instead they will screw their lives up with nonsensical, weird and often harmful advice.

The moderately wicked psychics like me and a few others will be full of compassion and actually do their utmost to help the client. Often succeeding where more conventional help has failed.

All three types of psychics will end up in hell so all the sceptics can take great solace from this.

Of course they won't. Because sceptics will not believe in hell. They will think it is a fictional concept. And of course they are right.

See? The psychics always win in the end!!!!!

Getting a psychic in for a party or for a little light entertainment is fine, those people aren't stupid. But, the people who throw large amounts of money towards psychics in the hope they will solve their problems are stupid.

Not stupid. Vulnerable and desperate.
When you are at your wit's end you are not thinking straight. The more vicious of my colleagues take advantage of this.

I have been associated with con artists and wicked people all my life. I am fairly wicked myself.

Yet this is the scam which has made me less ruthless and more compassionate than anything I have ever been involved with. It has paradoxically made me a better and kinder person. And more spiritual.

And even psychic.

Yes. Psychic. Experienced readers will know what I am talking about. I can't explain it on here.

People are beginning to think I am daft enough as it is.

Okay guys,

I just called Uri to settle this inane argument. He said he's not psychic, it's all a combination of misdirection, psychology and sleight of hand.

He did ask that you don't spread it around though as it could be bad for his business.

Happy now?


-----------------------

Next topic.... is Jeff Hobson really gay?

My, my...these grapes are sour.

Lets not turn this into a personal thing guys. The debate is about Uri Geller.

-- Topher

And from a "psychic catalogue" that I own....

"There will come a time when a sitter will ask you a question that you simply can not answer. It happens to all readers at times. Questions such as where is a missing loved one, lost debtors, runaways, lost children and so on. Now you can turn these painful moments in to easy money."

Look at the last sentence again. There is a recognition that these are PAINFUL moments, and yet still the only desire is to discover how to turn these painful moments into easy money.

Mentalism is an extraordinarily powerful branch of magic, and that is exactly why we must be totally aware of the full extent of the consequences of our performances.

They are indeed painful moments. However if the psychic has some sort of conscience it will be painful for him too.
This is what makes it a difficult business. I suspect that the psychic catalogue you have is from Nelson. It does sound quite callous.
However a good ethical psychic (no, it is not an oxymoron!) can indeed answer the question despite what the author of the catalogue says.
The answer to the sample questions posed is prediction.You don't say where the lost person is located. You can't. So this is what you say:

You WILL find the one you love. You WILL find the debtor (unless of course it is a fly by night psychic like myself). You WILL find the lost child.
Of course sometimes they won't.
This is why it is a tough business. You have to know what you are doing.
I am not sure it has much to do with mentalism as you suggest.

Mentalism is an entertainment art. There is not much entertainment in the psychic business.

It pays well though.

True knowledge lies in knowing when not to debate these questions....

;)

Thank you for your great sagacity.
I have no doubt that your post will stun us all into silence.

I HAVE been stunned into silence, but not by Dr Zodiac.

Have just revisited this thread since my last post, and find that it has lost its way. (Wisdom, we know you state your views with a wish to shock - but they come as no surprise. I understood that the purpose of the Café was to help each other, not to brag about ripping off vulnerable people).

I think my last post has proved to be correct. One only has to push certain buttons and its possible to get 'psychics' outraged over very little. A compliment here and a disagreement there - these people are so sensitive to debate that you can play them like a violin. They say they don't care what 'skeptics' say, but they can't help themselves respond. Just watch what happens in response to this post. I've no interest in the distasteful remarks that will probably be made, so I'm not going to revisit this thread again.

I look forward to seeing the decent ones among you around the Café, and discussing the wonderful art of mentalism with you.

I didn't say they don't have a good reason for not thinking straight, but the act of throwing money at a psychic to heal them is just plain stupid. Maybe it's temporary insanity, or maybe they were just brought up to be very trusting, or maybe they fell victim to a very charismatic performer, but anybody that gives money to these people hoping for answers are just stupid.

Someone lock this. it could go round and round for ever.

It appears that Dr Zodiac has failed in his attempt to quieten us all down. I expect that this thread will go on for several centuries. Even if it is locked it will reappear in another guise somewhere else.

I shall address Dario first then I shall speak to Mr. Wood.Then finally Mr.Hermann. As a psychic person I can still feel the latter's presence even though he says he has gone.

Dario, old chap. You must always show great respect to people you scam. It is the least you can do.

I would never dream of calling these vulnerable people "stupid". Their actions borne out of desperation may be stupid but they should not be blamed for such. They should be treated with compassion and sensitivity. I dare say that even you would do silly things and make mistakes if you were under great stress and pressure.

It would be ironic if you,in defending these people treat them with less respect than me who takes their money. Again. They are NOT stupid. They are vulnerable and need compassion. Calling them stupid tends to indicate contempt.It behooves you to think of these people in the same way that I do. Not with contempt but with compassion.

Now to Mr. Wood. I see he has been struck dumb. I have that effect on people.However, I can assure him that predicting good things for the client is the best way to go. Would he suggest that I say that they will NOT find the lost child, or the lover who has disappeared?
I am not there to distress people but to help them.

Of course I fully realise that my answer was simplistic. There are times when I would not predict that the lost person will be found. It all depends on the individual client and the individual situation.

Here is the criteria upon which I act. First I have to decide "what is is that the client wants to hear?" Once I have decided that I have to make another decision. "will it do the client any harm if I tell them what they want to hear?"

If I deem in my infinite wisdom that the client will benefit or at least suffer no harm if I tell them what they want to hear I will go ahead and tell them. If I decide that there are ethical considerations and that it may do the client harm if I tell them what they want to hear then of course I will not tell them.

Now to Tobias who informs us that psychics are very sensitive and easily angered yet he storms off in a huff to prove his point.

I think it will be easily observed and confirmed that there is no group more prone to jumping up and down in great indignation and outrage than sceptics. They are the ones whose buttons are easily pushed. And it seems that I am pushing them. I get the impression that I am the one playing the violin not the other way round.

But to his point about me "bragging about ripping off vulnerable people" I think he has been most impertinent and I do pray that he sees the light soon.

I have saved marriages, stopped people from committing suicide, counselled the bereaved, comforted the sick, have made the weak strong, have given hope to the defeated, given faith and encouragement where there was none before. I believe that I have led people out of darkness.

I have shed tears and prayed for many of these people and they never knew.

I rather think I should be nominated for sainthood. I would be most grateful if one or two of you would contact the Pope and put my name forward.

Mr Wisdom says "However, I can assure him that predicting good things for the client is the best way to go. Would he suggest that I say that they will NOT find the lost child, or the lover who has disappeared?
I am not there to distress people but to help them."

So, in all truth, you are not a "psychic" are you. You're a professional optimist. By "telling them what they want to hear" you think you are helping them. Maybe you are... but you are misleading them. They come to you and pay you for "predictions", advice from a "psychic", and instead you give them the reassurance they could get from a friend... for free.

You claim you "have saved marriages, stopped people from committing suicide, counselled the bereaved, comforted the sick, have made the weak strong, have given hope to the defeated, given faith and encouragement where there was none before. I believe that I have led people out of darkness."

You sound just like the old snake oil salesman from the old Western movies, selling bottles of coloured water that will cure all manner of ills. Maybe you should pitch your services on late night TV between the testimonials for 'Ab Rollers' and 'Spray On Hair'. Think of how many lives those wonderful products have changed too.

Wisdom... could you give me some of your "infinite wisdom" too please? I'm thinking of chucking in my card tricks and taking up the less labour intensive career of professional psychic too. Do you see any future in it for me?

No, Tim.
I am afraid that you have no future as a psychic. You do not have the proper attitude, I am afraid. I shall try and educate you, though. However you must promise to pay attention and not be impudent.

As a side issue I note that you come from Australia. I have also noted that a disproportionate amount of sceptics seem to come from Australia. I have often wondered why. Down to earth people I suppose. I bet they don't believe that David Copperfield can really fly either. Everyone in America (especially California) knows that he does.

Timothy, old chap. I hate to tell you this but being a psychic is not "less labour intensive" as you put it. It is very hard work and hell on earth. You would not like it. Stick to card tricks. You will of course remain impoverished but at least you will feel less stressed out.

Unless of course you are not impoverished. If this is the case you will not need to become a psychic after all.
In all seriousness the study of psychic work takes a hell of a lot more skill than card tricks. I should know since I am known for my wondrous ability at card tricks too.

Now here is lesson one in becoming a psychic. Do pay attention, there's a good chap. You say that the advice can be given from a close friend for free and that this is just as good.
It isn't.
First because it is a friend who does not seem to have a special gift. It is human nature to value the advice of a stranger who seems to be an expert than it is to take advice from someone you know already even if it is the same advice.
Second because the advice is free. Free advice is worth what you pay for it. Payment is part of the therapy. No time to explain why. Let me simply say that if you pay nothing you tend to put a nothing value upon it. Jan Woudhuysen in my favourite Tarot book quoted thus "all the most famous psychiatrists in America agree that charging the patient a high fee has a strong therapeutic effect"

I am indeed a snake oil salesman by temperant and training. I have already said that I am not really psychic. Well, only a tiny bit but we won't get into that. I do not think you are ready for that lesson yet.

I have indeed pitched my services on late night TV doing the things you mention. Perhaps you do have a future as a psychic after all.

I am a professional vagabond who has had to live by my wits all my life. I have mixed with all sorts of people from armed robbers all the way down to lesser scoundrels. You really cannot expect me to have the same attitude to humanity as those like yourself who have led more sheltered lives. Never fear, though. I shall try to unshelter you if you listen carefully.

I do not do psychic readings anymore. You will be delighted to hear that I have now lost my power.

However when I was active I was not trying to be Mother Theresa. I was merely trying to make a living.
However, I did find that I was able to help people in so doing. I dare say that I helped far more people improve their lives than many a sceptic including yourself.

Poor old Uri Geller seems to have been lost in this discussion. I get a vibe he is looking in and getting irritated that we are not talking about him any more.
Perhaps we had better get back on track.