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LobowolfXXX
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On Mar 25, 2017, E.S. Andrews wrote:
The reason this gang couldn't shoot straight...the gang's new leader was interested only in a personal "win"--any bill, no matter its content or impact on a nation, because he neither knew anything nor cared anything about the subject. He wanted credit for making a "deal." Any deal. If it happened to bear no resemblance to what he repeatedly swore to deliver to those who made him gang leader, so be it.




Are you talking about the ACA here, or the proposed replacement?

(The discerning reader will understand the (feigned) confusion).
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
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On Mar 25, 2017, Stanyon wrote:
POLITICIANS

Definition: Elected officials, supposedly representing the citizenry, that know what they must do...but can't do it!

JMHO


Don't use the P word.

You'll set off the alarms.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
landmark
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I'm hoping for a Nixon-Goes-To-China moment here: Trump may be the one President who could actually push a Medicare for All plan. It would insure his re-election. He's spoken in favor of such plans many times before. The other party is too cowardly to push it, despite polls showing that Sanders is the most popular politician in the country right now, and Medicare for all has a majority of Americans supporting it.

Well. I can dream, can't I?
Dannydoyle
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Always interesting to me as they fade from power and all they have to do is run their mouths and not govern they get more popular.

It is easy to just be critical. Had ol crazy Bernie been in power his numbers would infinitesimal.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Punch and Judy.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
1KJ
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Here's a link pharmaceutical companies don't want you to see:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihhj_VSKiTs
NYCTwister
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There's no money in curing people, or advocating for prevention.

In all fairness though it's the people own fault.
If they're willing to eat garbage and pop pills rather than take responsibility for their own health, then they have no one else to blame.

The vast majority of the chronic illnesses people suffer from are the result of lifestyle choices.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
1KJ
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On Mar 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
There's no money in curing people, or advocating for prevention.

In all fairness though it's the people own fault.
If they're willing to eat garbage and pop pills rather than take responsibility for their own health, then they have no one else to blame.

The vast majority of the chronic illnesses people suffer from are the result of lifestyle choices.


Amen. I've lost 30 pounds and my doctor was shocked at the improvement in my lab results. I wonder if he was a bit disappointed he couldn't put me on the lifetime membership to the cholesterol pill as he told me he would "have to" in my previous medical exam.

kj
1KJ
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[quote]On Mar 25, 2017, 1KJ wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
There's no money in curing people, or advocating for prevention.

In all fairness though it's the people own fault.
If they're willing to eat garbage and pop pills rather than take responsibility for their own health, then they have no one else to blame.

The vast majority of the chronic illnesses people suffer from are the result of lifestyle choices.


However, even if I take good care of my health, I still have to have health insurance. I currently spend three times as much as I did 8 years ago. Three times!

I'm not thrilled about the recent failure, and I'm not thrilled about ACA, or rather UCA (Unaffordable Care Act)

kj
NYCTwister
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What makes me sick (pun intended) is that if we put the 54 BILLION that's going into the already bloated defense budget, we could have health care for all, or close to it.

But we have to be ready in case ISIS crosses the Atlantic in a row boat and attacks New Jersey.

If this once great country does fall then it's the credulous population that will be the cause.

SMDH.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
What makes me sick (pun intended) is that if we put the 54 BILLION that's going into the already bloated defense budget, we could have health care for all, or close to it.

But we have to be ready in case ISIS crosses the Atlantic in a row boat and attacks New Jersey.

If this once great country does fall then it's the credulous population that will be the cause.

SMDH.


I'll be generous and pretend that there are only 300 million people in the country. How, exactly, would you propose to provide healthcare to everyone in the country for about 180 bucks a person?
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
NYCTwister
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Over a hundred million people are on Medicaid and Medicare already.

It would go a long way, and it's better than buying more freaking bombs.

The point is that there is enough money in the tax base to get it done if the people who pretend to care, actually did.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
balducci
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Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
What makes me sick (pun intended) is that if we put the 54 BILLION that's going into the already bloated defense budget, we could have health care for all, or close to it.

But we have to be ready in case ISIS crosses the Atlantic in a row boat and attacks New Jersey.

If this once great country does fall then it's the credulous population that will be the cause.

SMDH.


I'll be generous and pretend that there are only 300 million people in the country. How, exactly, would you propose to provide healthcare to everyone in the country for about 180 bucks a person?

(These figures are all approximate ...)

In 2014, Medicare (federal outlays) cost $505 billion.

http://kff.org/medicare/fact-sheet/medic......t-sheet/

About 29 million Americans are uninsured.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/05/10......re-s-Why

The US population is about 319 million.

So about 9% of $505 billion would be enough to cover healthcare for those presently uninsured.

That would be about $46 billion.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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From one of the links I posted, looks like total Medicare benefit payments totaled $597 billion in 2014.

So 9% of that would be almost exactly the $54 billion NYCTwister mentioned.

Freaks me out the numbers match so closely.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Mar 26, 2017, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
What makes me sick (pun intended) is that if we put the 54 BILLION that's going into the already bloated defense budget, we could have health care for all, or close to it.

But we have to be ready in case ISIS crosses the Atlantic in a row boat and attacks New Jersey.

If this once great country does fall then it's the credulous population that will be the cause.

SMDH.


I'll be generous and pretend that there are only 300 million people in the country. How, exactly, would you propose to provide healthcare to everyone in the country for about 180 bucks a person?

(These figures are all approximate ...)

In 2014, Medicare (federal outlays) cost $505 billion.

http://kff.org/medicare/fact-sheet/medic......t-sheet/

About 29 million Americans are uninsured.

http://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2016/05/10......re-s-Why

The US population is about 319 million.

So about 9% of $505 billion would be enough to cover healthcare for those presently uninsured.

That would be about $46 billion.


Your calculation appears to assume that the entire (covered) US population is covered by Medicare. Approximately 50 million people are covered by Medicare (actually fewer, and presumably fewer still in 2014. So you can't just take 9% of the total US population and prorate it. You have $505 billion covering fewer than 50 million people; in other words, the cost is over $10,000 per person, which means that those 29 million Americans would need not $46 billion, but a bit more than $300 million...call it a factor of around 7x.

Moreover, Medicare doesn't fully cover healthcare expenses for the 17% or so of the population it DOES cover; that's why supplemental plans are purchased on top of Medicare coverage. See, e.g., http://www.marketwatch.com/(S(jpgxu155hzygvlzbebtr5r45))/story/you-might-need-nearly-350000-to-pay-for-health-care-costs-in-retirement-2017-02-02?link=MW_latest_news. ("Medicare generally covers only about 62% of the cost of health-care services for Medicare beneficiaries ages 65 and older, while out-of-pocket spending accounts for 13%.”)

So, $300 million gets you 62% of the way there; that means it takes over $480 billion to get to 100%.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
LobowolfXXX
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Quote:
On Mar 26, 2017, balducci wrote:
From one of the links I posted, looks like total Medicare benefit payments totaled $597 billion in 2014.

So 9% of that would be almost exactly the $54 billion NYCTwister mentioned.

Freaks me out the numbers match so closely.


Unfortunately, the 29 million uninsured Americans correspond to over half of the people covered by Medicare, so you don't need 9% of the $597 billion..you need about 60% of it.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
balducci
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You're right, my calculations were off. I blame the Maui Brewing Co. Coconut Porter.

But I would add that the over $10,000 per person is excessive. I'm not saying it is not accurate, I'm saying it is far more than should need to be spent. The figure in Canada is about $3000 (that's in US dollars). (That's for basic universal healthcare, of course some people have private add ons for dental and prescription drugs etc., much as you do in the States.)
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
1KJ
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Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, LobowolfXXX wrote:
Quote:
On Mar 25, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
What makes me sick (pun intended) is that if we put the 54 BILLION that's going into the already bloated defense budget, we could have health care for all, or close to it.

But we have to be ready in case ISIS crosses the Atlantic in a row boat and attacks New Jersey.

If this once great country does fall then it's the credulous population that will be the cause.

SMDH.


I'll be generous and pretend that there are only 300 million people in the country. How, exactly, would you propose to provide healthcare to everyone in the country for about 180 bucks a person?


Here are the two problems and a proposed solution:

First, We DON'T NEED TO SPEND AS MUCH AS WE DO ON ILLNESS CARE. If our medical, educational, media, and society educated people on how to live a more healthy life, our medical expenses would drop significantly and we wouldn't need X billion dollars per year.

Second, NYCTwister is exactly correct. If we didn't spend trillions of dollars creating enemies so we can spend trillions more fighting enemies, we would be rolling in dough and you and I wouldn't have to spend so much money on illness care premiums, and instead spend a tiny fraction of that money on actual health care.. Let's be honest, the war on ISIS is a war of greed. If there were no oil in the middle east, and a ton of oil in some other part of the world, the terrorist problem would be in that other part of the world.

kj
1KJ
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BTW, I'm sure some here will not "buy" that we could lower medical costs through health education. However, we are mis-informed every day about our health. It's not about trying to control people's behavior, it's about education.

I bet few people are aware of the studies on fasting for example. I bet few people know that when you fast, it has been scientifically proven that your body goes into a "healing" mode, and if you stay on a regimen that includes fasting, even if you maintain your same diet when you are not fasting, your health increases dramatically, and the "healthcare" costs would decrease dramatically. Every single living creature tested has increased their health and their lifespan by around 40% with various forms of fasting. Humans on some of these regimens have lived into their 100s with not a single medication.

Hey, it's your choice, you can live one lifestyle and end up on ten pills a day and feel ill all the time, or you can live a slightly different lifestyle and likely take zero pills and feel healthy. We know which option the "healthcare" industry would rather you take, but ultimately it's your choice.

I can't blame any industry for trying to increase their profits. However, our government and our education system should be focused on protecting and educating people, instead of their focus on fleecing people.

kj
Dannydoyle
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If we are to believe you can lower health care costs through behavior, which you can, then it becomes a personal responsibility issue. One which your neighbor should not be required to pay for. I can't control your behavior.

Or government should be able to control that behavior. Not good is it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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