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Jonathan Townsend
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Lots about should, better and wrong for civilization here at NVMS

Cory Doctorow shared a chapter of his latest novel "Walkaway" today over at tor.com.

What do you think, folks? Jack, John, Danny...

Does this appeal? How to make it happen then?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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I hope you're not asking me. I'm lucky I used the correct "you're" just now.

At least I think and hope I did.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Salguod Nairb
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Pssst... Life is better in the Matrix...
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
Jonathan Townsend
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Here's a link to the chapter
http://www.tor.com/2017/04/03/excerpts-c......apter-2/

Web/Net/Matrix/Reticulum/Consensus/...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
landmark
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The Matrix which Doctorow points to is part of this:

Two determining factors in the future 1) Technology 2) The Environment

Technology has two possible directions: a) Equality or b) Hierarchy

Likewise with The Environment, two possible directions: a) Abundance or b) Scarcity

Now form a 2x2 matrix of the combination of possibilities and you'll have four possible futures: communism, rentism, socialism, and exterminism

Looks like Cory is headed for door number four.

See Four Futures by Peter Frase.

Ha--while looking for a link to the book I found this article about it--by none other than Cory Doctorow:

http://boingboing.net/2017/01/06/four-fu......-fi.html
Jonathan Townsend
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That two by two matrix looks too much like Pascal's Wager to pass unchallenged. What did Cory Doctorow write that pointed your opinion of his opinion toward door number four (hierarchy/scarcity) for himself or others?

It's not so much that we get one of four worlds in the blink of an eye but instead what we make and what we do with what we make move our world toward such destinations. Each choice. Billions of people making choices over time and across our world.

Interesting that you mention possible future worlds. Stephenson's story Anathem has a ship traveling between alternate versions of our world along a path toward the ideal. The words that describe his "Orth" relate to ours as small "what if something else happened" diversions from our history. Choices make differences. Others have gotten more creative about enlarging the table of choices - notably Bruce Sterling per Mozart in Mirorshades.

Distraction: Just because a thing is logically true does not mean it's rhetorically meaningful in context. Is there a measure of rhetorical utility/leverage/traction? See Anathem for some about Rhetors and Incantors - Smile Here's more about that book.
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landmark
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Red Rosa famously efficiently narrowed the choices down to two. Remember, you have to get there from here. One riffle shuffle doesn't get you to all possible deck permutations.
funsway
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I like some of the thinking, but ma generally against any analysis based on selecting between two alternatives offered by someone else.
There is often "another right answer" plus "all of the above" and "none of the above" choices.

Methinks that many of the problems faced by our culture today comes from people thinking they are making a free choice
when they are only selecting between two options defined by someone else.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



ShareBooks at www.eversway.com * questions at funsway@eversway.com
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Apr 3, 2017, landmark wrote:
Red Rosa famously efficiently ...

URL kink for that reasoning?

@funsway - beware the false dichotomy. In jest: Judge Dredd presents a Hobbes(son) choice of city/cursed earth.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Apr 4, 2017, funsway wrote:
I like some of the thinking, but ma generally against any analysis based on selecting between two alternatives offered by someone else.
There is often "another right answer" plus "all of the above" and "none of the above" choices.

Methinks that many of the problems faced by our culture today comes from people thinking they are making a free choice
when they are only selecting between two options defined by someone else.


That is an interesting way to think of it. Thank you.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Jonathan Townsend
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There are other ways folks get cheated out of possible futures
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies
offers a few to watch out for.

Any thoughts on how to get to an abundant future with more fun?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
landmark
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Here's the link to your question, Jon:

https://johnriddell.wordpress.com/2014/1......rbarism/

The technology issue according to Frase leads to either more equality or more hierarchy. Under capitalism, technological resources will continue to be centralized and owned by the rich and powerful, as they further consolidate their power. So I believe that only the ending of capitalism can give hope on this count.

As to the environment leading to abundance or scarcity--It's anyone's guess whether we will avoid environmental catastrophe, but without an international plan to avoid the worst, it's a crap shoot at best with no insurance. Again, I don't think the capitalists will allow any saving of the environment to happen as it threatens their short-term profit. Privatization of water, fossil and nuclear fuel waste, despoilation of the air and water, enclosure and destruction of top soil and factory meat farming will inevitably result in the collapse of sustainable resources for millions as long as profit is the blind driving force in the economy.

So I think our best hope is to build a better society based on people not profit.

I am not optimistic.

Ken's post is certainly something to keep in mind however. We can only see what we can see, and we can't see what we can't see. So I'm hoping that I am not seeing how our future might end up in a better way than I can envision.
Jonathan Townsend
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Exponential growth, forest fires, ... plagues, zombie ideologies...

Have a look in logosjournal.com/2014/hudis

Tl:dr remember the story about the chessboard and grains of rice.

Moral? Frogs don't evolve to live in boiling water while you're watching... so turn your head, okay?

Back to suggestions for accomplishing / making better. Smile
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Jonathan Townsend
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For folks who want to read more about Rosa: http://logosjournal.com/2014/fair-schulz-2/
and the Cory Doctorow story... at tor.com for the first two chapters.

What are you doing today to pick or make a future? https://www.amazon.com/Walkaway-Novel-Co......65392763
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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