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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » IF a tree falls in a forest... (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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landmark
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You know the drill:

...and no one is around, does it make a sound?

What do you think, and why?
NYCTwister
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The tree makes a sound because the sun will rise tomorrow.

Cue the pseudo-intellectual nit pickers.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Salguod Nairb
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The real question is if you create a thread about a tree falling in the woods, does it become political??
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
landmark
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? That's in your head.

I asked because a friend brought it up last night. We were discussing a theater piece I had seen which was kind of a non-linear story. You go in, two at a time, and each member of your pair gets a pair of earphones in which is piped in a different story. So even though you're both seeing the same thing, you're hearing different interpretations of it. At the end of the piece you're given a chance to compare notes. Because of my particular personal history, I had a very strong association with what was being presented.

My friend's reaction when I told her about it, was whether a person who had not had my particular history would have found any meaning in the somewhat disjointed theater piece. Which got us talking about where does meaning in a piece of art reside? And that prompted her recollection of the old tree in a forest question.

When I was younger, I was quite adamant that the sound was independent of the observer. Not so now.
Salguod Nairb
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On Apr 8, 2017, landmark wrote:

We were discussing a theater piece I had seen which was kind of a non-linear story. You go in, two at a time, and each member of your pair gets a pair of earphones in which is piped in a different story. So even though you're both seeing the same thing, you're hearing different interpretations of it. At the end of the piece you're given a chance to compare notes. Because of my particular personal history, I had a very strong association with what was being presented.



We see that everyday here on the forum. People read the exact same post and come to two completely different conclusions.... Smile
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landmark
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Mrs. Landmark once explained to me that that in higher academia the (seemingly obvious to me) view that meaning is a collaboration between author and reader is called Reader Response Theory. Evidently at one time folks spent a lot of time discussing and arguing about it. Maybe it's not that obvious to some, or maybe I am not thinking hard enough about the other possibilities.

And though these kinds of questions may seem nitpicky and so on, I think on reflection that a person's response to these kinds of questions tells a lot about an individual's outlook on the world, and shows up in his or her personality.
Salguod Nairb
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I'm not a fan of litmus personality tests.
We shall meet in the place where there is no darkness...
NYCTwister
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According to some, you can't tell anything about them by what they repeatedly say.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
Tom Cutts
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If there is no one around to see it, does the tree even exist?
landmark
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Quote:
On Apr 8, 2017, Salguod Nairb wrote:
I'm not a fan of litmus personality tests.


That wasn't the intention. I think the question is more profound than "Who is your favorite Beatle?"

But it's fine if you don't want to play.
landmark
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On Apr 8, 2017, Tom Cutts wrote:
If there is no one around to see it, does the tree even exist?


Well, that's an interesting question. In my opinion, something exists, but I'm not sure it's a tree.
karnak
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Responding to the original question: Define "sound."
For a supernatural chiller mixing magic (prestidigitation, legerdemain) with Magic (occultism, mysticism), check out my novel MAGIC: AN OCCULT THRILLER at http://www.amazon.com/Magic-Occult-Thriller-Reed-Hall/dp/1453874836
LobowolfXXX
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Noun
1.
the sensation produced by stimulation of the organs of hearing by vibrations transmitted through the air or other medium.
2.
mechanical vibrations transmitted through an elastic medium, traveling in air at a speed of approximately 1087 feet (331 meters) per second at sea level.

Unfortunately, while it does some fascinating philosophical overtones (undoubtedly what has intrigued Landmark), I do tend to agree with Karnak that strictly speaking, it's a purely semantic question, the answer to which is "no and yes," respectively (see above).


Setting that aside, though, and embracing the spirit rather than the letter of the question, I agree with Young Landmark, apparently no longer with us. My answer is yes. Warhol was wrong.
"Torture doesn't work" lol
Guess they forgot to tell Bill Buckley.

"...as we reason and love, we are able to hope. And hope enables us to resist those things that would enslave us."
lynnef
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On Apr 8, 2017, karnak wrote:
Responding to the original question: Define "sound."


Good point! "sound" can be defined scientifically as pressure waves in air or another medium which is the objective source of hearing. In other words, it doesn't depend on hearing. A trippy thought: if an object fell on a planet without an atmosphere, what would it sound like? Lynn
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A more important question.



Quote:
Rain forest
Mist and mystery
Teeming green
Green brain facing labotomy
Climate control centre for the world
Ancient cord of coexistence
Hacked by parasitic greedhead scam
From Sarawak to Amazonas
Costa Rica to mangy B.C. hills
Cortege rhythm of falling timber.

What kind of currency grows in these new deserts,
These brand new flood plains?

If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
Anybody hear the forest fall?

Cut and move on
Cut and move on
Take out trees
Take out wildlife at a rate of species every single day
Take out people who've lived with this for 100,000 years
Inject a billion burgers worth of beef
Grain eaters, methane dispensers.

Through thinning ozone,
Waves fall on wrinkled earth
Gravity, light, ancient refuse of stars,
Speak of a drowning
But this, this is something other.
Busy monster eats dark holes in the spirit world
Where wild things have to go
To disappear
Forever

If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
Anybody hear the forest fall?

If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
If a tree falls in the forest does anybody hear?
Anybody hear the forest fall?

The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
NYCTwister
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Wrong thread.
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landmark
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Quote:
On Apr 8, 2017, karnak wrote:
Responding to the original question: Define "sound."


I would say to you and Lobo that asking one to define "sound" is asking an equivalent question as the original one posted in shorter form. So I don't think it's a semantic issue--I think it's a real issue about how we perceive our perception of reality.
landmark
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I agree with Young Landmark, apparently no longer with us...


Believe me, you don't miss him half as much as I do.
Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On Apr 7, 2017, landmark wrote:
You know the drill:

...and no one is around, does it make a sound?

What do you think, and why?



Yes when done as naive question. I fill in lots of "on earth", "with gravity, atmosphere", "as seen on tv" ...
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Apr 8, 2017, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Apr 8, 2017, Salguod Nairb wrote:
I'm not a fan of litmus personality tests.


That wasn't the intention. I think the question is more profound than "Who is your favorite Beatle?"

But it's fine if you don't want to play.


There is no more important question than who is your favorite Beatle.

I like the Hercules Beetle. (By the way you spelled beetle wrong.)
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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