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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
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On May 14, 2017, Mindpro wrote: They're already more cost effective than those industry resources. I'll take a highly targeted Facebook ad over an over-priced banner ad on any industry-specific website without hesitation. |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
Bill Gates was on facebook this morning. He often encourages others to use facebook. I swiped the post below that he made Wednesday. He posted a picture of him and Warren Buffet sitting together with a red nose on.
“This year, our foundation will match up to $1 million in donations for Red Nose Day to help ensure kids are safe, healthy, educated, and empowered. Participate with your friends by setting up your own Facebook fundraiser for Red Nose Day USA or donate directly to Red Nose Day USA. Participate with your friends by setting up your own Facebook fundraiser for Red Nose Day USA or donate directly to Red Nose Day USA.” Not saying it will ever happen, it won’t, but if I were scheduled to perform in front of Bill Gates or any other big name CEO the first place I would head to do my homework on them would be Facebook. Same thing if I were intending to reach out to them in some other way. Also worth noting CEO’s can and do often explore facebook without you ever knowing it. And let us not forget that the one that does the actual hiring is usually someone the CEO appointed to do that. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
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On May 14, 2017, RobertSmith wrote: your revision doesn't alter anything Robert. If you go to a town square and people are yelling a message/selling a product. Those that stop and listen are interested, but you have no control over who specifically gets to hear ur message. And yes I understand you can do targeted ads that gives you some control over certain attributes, but that doesn't mean you are certain they really hear your message. Quote: Robert I'm not dismissing it outright, they have a purpose and value, but like you said, I find their value relatively low when compared to other channels of communication in a b2b market for professional services. See I believe social media platforms are supports to branding, but only after a strong brand is established. Prior to that, social media efforts reduce or have minimal impact to credibility. Furthermore, most people are not professionals and don't have the branding theming or consistency of image to convey across social media and inadvertently undermine branding efforts.
Your last sentence explains your entire position. "YOU" find more value from other channels. Social media is a waste of time "for YOU." And that's fine. But to dismiss it outright just shows ignorance of the abilities these platforms have. Quote: your revenue has no context is the $200k lifetime earnings, yearly, quarterly, monthly, etc. without time duration there is no true gauge of impact of the channel performance. Additionally, you haven't answered what the market you are selling in. How can it be compared to professional services. Are these entertainment revenue from booked corporate gigs generated from a Facebook ad or some other professional service. If not I fail to see how it is relevant.
Just to spell it out for you, of the last $200,000 or so in revenue my company has generated, a bit over $50k occurred specifically due to these platforms you call "a waste of time." Quote:
That's real. You may not believe it because you still believe Facebook is nothing more than vanity and cat videos and therefore a waste of time. That's fine. Robert, I am not dismissing the value of the platform. I disagree with you on the value in a b2b market for professional services, specifically for entertainers. Tell us what your company does as it relates to the entertainment industry. Specifically, who do they help? What do the help with? How do they do it? Prove me wrong about social media for b2b beyond social media companies selling business social media services. |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
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On May 14, 2017, RobertSmith wrote: Cost effectiveness is dependent on Profits generated. But to your point about better options, better to be quoted/interviewed in the journal/website then any paid advert. |
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charliecheckers Inner circle 1969 Posts |
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On May 14, 2017, WDavis I think it is also important to consider how long one has been in a particular market to consider ROI on any strategy. |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
Charlie,
Great point. I would refine your statement to say how long one has been deploying the strategy in a particular market. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I would also add that we need to know how much PROFIT it generated.
I don't generally ask about this but when someone wants to throw out money to credential an opinion it is worth knowing what that number represents. Over what period of tint is that? When did it start to generate money? What OTHER platforms are being used and how can you specifically trace it to that? How much money and time was spent to generate that and what other opportunity was lost while pursuing that strategy? And finally how much of that is kept as profit? If you generate 50 grand and 20% is profit (A fairly standard business model.) then you have made 10 grand. How much time did it take to generate 10 grand? These are context questions and if you want to brag about numbers they should be answered in order to provide context. Otherwise the numbers are meaningless. These are numbers that should be at the fingertips of business owners of any stripe. You don't have to answer them, I am just saying that numbers with no context are meaningless. People throw around numbers all the time. I just wish to see context for those numbers is all.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
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On May 14, 2017, RobertSmith wrote: There you go again taking about something you don't know anything about. Nowhere did I ever say anything about banner ads or "overpriced banner ads" - nowhere. This is something you manufactured on your own. What I'm talking about (professional industry networks, tools and trade resources) has absolutely nothing to do with banner ads or the such. Sorry. |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Why on earth would a professional market business use consumer marketing methods or strategies when they are not trying to reach the consumer markets?
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
You know what guys, I've thought about. I really have.
I'm going to yield to you all. Clearly those of you like Danny, Mindpro, WDavis etc, who do not execute anything on Facebook or digital marketing are far more versed in the practitionership of not NOT doing digital marketing than someone who actually DOES do it. Y'all win. Kudos to you all. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
Yes tough questions to answer I get it.
But to be clear Robert before you stomp off in a huff I have not said anything about Facebook marketing or how to do it. ALL I did was ask you to clarify your numbers. YOU made the claims about $200,000 in revenue and $50,000 coming from Facebook. I don't dispute those numbers. I simply would like to know what they mean so I asked for context. I have not said do other things, I have not said it didn't work, or suggested another method was better. I think as part of an overall strategy it is great to use Facebook. But honestly looking at both sides of this each seems a little myopic in their own way. Each seems to be assigning positions to the other that they are not saying. Robert does not like Mindpro so everything is colored by that. Tom wants to be involved even though he has no experience. Old feuds just on a new topic. How sad nobody can have a different valid opinion. Why is it that it has to be anyone who disagrees is stupid? Everyone has such fixed positions it is strange. This is why context matters. Give us context for your success please and it will mean more. Without it it amounts to little. How exactly do you use it business to business? Maybe you and Walter are talking about different things. You have such an arrogant attitude for no reason. Can't we discuss as adults and learn? I would like to know more personally. I think a DISCUSSION, as opposed to pronouncements from everyone would be cool.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts |
Quote:
On May 14, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: "Can't we discuss as adults and learn?" Did you actually just ask that? You? Really? Your gas-lighting is unbelievable. Delete your account. |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
So you are saying you can't put things in correct and can't discuss others positions.
Why all the anger when all that was asked was fire s clarification? I did not post angry at you in the least.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3243 Posts |
Quote:
On Apr 13, 2017, Mindpro wrote: ....I'm only this far (pg 2) of this thread. But just wanted to say thanks! This is quality reading, and sincerely appreciated. I have to admit, I'm feeling a tad embarrassed. It's subtle, like just finding out you've been mispronouncing a word for years. Maybe a common mistake, but if you're OCD like me...ugh, annoying. So, back on topic- I've often said, "I do corporate events". Up until a few moments ago, I believed I did lol. I doubt I'll be changing how I describe my work for businesses though. Hopefully, my references would show no attempt at duplicity. Anyway, often I see a post on the Café, it deserves a reply, and I forget. So, back to the discussion for me. 252LazySunday (Hey Danny, I was just down in Boulder City and did the helicopter gunship thing. It was great! Offer stands, you'll love it. Hope you're well)
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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WDavis Inner circle 1276 Posts |
252life thanks for posting. OCD can be a difficult challenge, if you don't mind I would love to see a new thread on how it's affected both positively and negatively your business as an entertainer.
Walter |
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3243 Posts |
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On Apr 13, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote: Great points. Much appreciated. Danny, I just think you come off like a bull in a china shop at times lol. But! You've got a TON of info at your fingertips from all I've seen. Obvious that it's all been learned in real time/real life, not theory. I personally learn a lot from some of your input, and say thanks.
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21219 Posts |
I AM a bull in a China shop. No doubt about it.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3243 Posts |
This thread has been an education.
My experiencing with advertising, was a dark comedy. For approx 5 years I owned an online game. I tried everything from the sucker bets ("mass email plans"), small scale guerrilla marketing, targeted banner ads, Facebook, etc., etc. Ironically, the smallest, most obscure little Australian site, was the most successful. Not by a little either. And (!) those people almost always ended up being the whales. If there's a point here, I guess it's this. Test out different approaches, and maybe you'll get a surprise. If this applies to our form of entertainment, I personally don't know. But, that's why I'm loving this thread. Trying to learn.
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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252life Inner circle Ninth Circle, Hades 3243 Posts |
I am quickly realizing I have not maximized my potential, sheeeesh
Feeling very inefficient at the moment. (See?! I could have just said, "atm". I'm *** wasteful!) I'm someone that probably needs an agent. Or, a babysitter. 252Rainman
Look for all the world like you're counting the brain cells in his cranium.
-Theodore Annemann |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
252life, I agree there has been a wealth of great information offered here in even just the last week. There are two ways members here will respond to it - those that will take the time and put in the effort to learn, understand and try to comprehend the information that has been offered to them, and those who will fight it, deny it, argue against it, challenge it and not ever get a true understanding of the content being offered, the opinions vs. the facts and a host of other blockades that will prevent them from benefiting the as as other will. They will instead fight against the messenger or posters. That is fine their prerogative.
As far as Robert he believes he knows about social media. He is then trying to take his belief and claimed experience (square peg) and trying to make it universally applicable to any situation (consumer or professional) whether it is true or not (round hole). It is no different than a magician that loves a trick and insists that it be in all of his show regardless if a show for 3 year olds, a corporate events for adults or a senior home. He feels he can make it work in any situation because he feel he likes it and knows best. Others can tell him otherwise and that it is not the best and even offer reasons or examples why it is not so, he doesn't want to hear it. It really is a matter of people being blinded by their own ignorance for many. Self-realization is truly the greatest benefit from this information and really from all of the content presented here in Tricky Business. It becomes really easy to see how one is towards their business and likely performance by the way they view things and respond. It is no different how the checkers brothers take away so much from the information offered in Tricky Business and a handful of others learn, accept and benefit nothing. They prevent themselves from the same luxury. I'm glad to see (and hear from) so many this last week about the eye-opening information that all comes from the single element of understanding consumer vs. professional markets. I will take a moment to loudly say and clarify this since Tom specifically stated this and Donald and another person here have eluded to it - I (and recently Walter, Danny and others) have delved deeper into the issue of consumer vs. professional markets as I feel it is an underlying reasons for many performers lack of success, confusion and lack of understanding of so many elements and things related to both their performance and their business operations. For many that truly understand this premise it can be the missing piece you've needed. Understand I (and I am sure the others too) in NO WAY have ever presented this topic to claim, present or project that a consumer level performer is a lower level performer or "belittled" performer (as Tom has stated). Even in Donald's reply he mentions something to the affect of "well I guess I am just a consumer market performer" as if to imply that it is something bad, low-lever or somehow inadequate. This was ever said, ever. This topic was only introduced to offer reasons and awareness of the issue and how it likely applies to almost every person here's entertainment performance and business (except Tom). Some are getting hung up on a tone that doesn't or shouldn't exist. We all start on a consumer market level. Many performers remain there their entire performing career and can become very successful. THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG OR INSUFFICIENT IN BEING A CONSUMER MARKET PERFORMER! Only understand that they operate differently than professional market performers in many ways and approaches. I work with far more consumer level performers than anything else. Some are content to always stay at this level, others are aware of limitations and boundaries that exist and strive to get to the professional market level. It is an individual choice as performers we all have to make. I am only concerned that everyone has all of the facts, proper insight and information to make a proper and educated decision that best suits themselves. I see much more coming ahead in great topics and I think this premise and understanding it completely will help members here get the most out of such entertainment business-related topics and positioning. From what I have been hearing from many this week, it has been a real eye-opener to many who have been re-energized to think about this and like 252life, reevaluate their current position and operations. |
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