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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Britain's Got Talent Russ Stevens in fix and exposure row (23 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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JackMagic
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Quote:
On May 1, 2017, Karl M wrote:
I just saw this it is an importent message from Issy ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1oKXnGXUehA



Maybe we should all email the editor of the Daily Mirror he might then get the message!
The Duster
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On May 1, 2017, Tarik Flash wrote:
you also state they only have to google lynx pretending to buy one ?


Sorry that was two different things, using google, and emailing the maker of the item

They were just examples

Yes - an instigating journalist will very easily be able to investigate and find out how it works

Maybe the paper has a magician that has a column - and they just asked him/her - I don't read the paper so I don't know

But it's not hard to find out how it was done

TBH [although I said Google/email the maker] by far the most likely explanation is they just read forum comments as whether it's digital spy or YouTube [or elsewhere] - you always get someone saying 'I'm a magician, she just used an easy trick called x that cost y that does everything for you'

And of course after using the internet and reading that - they can google a bit for any further background - but they will list the source as anonymous
The Duster
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I'm saying there was NO anonymous source

But it's very unlikely there is - as it would be far more work, calling round magicians asking them if they know and if they want to reveal the method

So trying to find someone who did that for £100 [er anyone really think the source would get paid for this????] would be a waste of time

As close to 100% of the time there isn't anyone to find
Gaz Lawrence
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This is more food for thought and not my view on it but it did make me think ? I was speaking to a couple of magicians about this earlier and one said ( and we all know Jamie had the bill to lemon and other effects pretty much exposed when he was on ) that part of the problem is if you have a young child using props of this expense it's much more likely to be exposed simply because if a child can do it then the anyone can attitude strikes a chord . Therefore an adult magician wouldnt create the same almost special powers and it would be more believable that he or she has massively honed their art over many years . I mean you just wouldnt get a child using £3000 props in general so it's more likely to create speculation on looking up the method . Lynx didn't do themselves any favours when they advertised this to all and sundry showing the full workings ( which I know was pointed out earlier by someone in this thread ) when it first came out . I personally hope Issy wins the show as I thought she was great despite the obvious leg up she must have got all round from getting the props organising the routine and definately getting her performance aired . Anyway good luck to her and Russ he must be enormously proud of her and she thoroughly desrerves to go far on merit as she handled everything brilliantly up there . Best magic to all Tarik 😊
MazingMandy
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On Apr 30, 2017, Karl M wrote:
The pressure is to much for 8 year old girl and the news papers will build up more pressure plus exposure of tricks are bad for all of us so quit while shes ahed,thats my advice and I have been studying the business side of things so know a bit about it all


Worst. Advice. Ever.
The Duster
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Ah, Like that ye olde saying:

Just because a man spells like an 8 year old - that doesn't mean an 8 year old should heed his advice
Karl M
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Quote:
On May 2, 2017, The Duster wrote:
Ah, Like that ye olde saying:

Just because a man spells like an 8 year old - that doesn't mean an 8 year old should heed his advice

Yeah good one mate making fun of some one with learning problem I had it all my life so I try to ignore it form people like you Smile
The Duster
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Quote:
On May 2, 2017, Karl M wrote:
Quote:
On May 2, 2017, The Duster wrote:
Ah, Like that ye olde saying:

Just because a man spells like an 8 year old - that doesn't mean an 8 year old should heed his advice

Yeah good one mate making fun of some one with learning problem I had it all my life so I try to ignore it form people like you Smile


Not exactly

You were telling the act to 'give up' and that you know best as you are into the business side of things

That is both hurtful and a hateful thing to say towards any act – never mind one that young - why should she have this taken away from her because of the papers or people revealing how she does things [did you say the same thing about all the other BGT magic acts in the past?]

I am severely dyslexic myself – which is why I use a spell checker before I post

Ignore all you wish
magic in mind
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Think the only losers are lynx magic.Whoever wrote the article was wrong they said non reflective tv monitor but then added a link to the lynx.Which was from gee magic showing complete workings. Every time britains got talent is on and a magician fools the judges.It's in the paper or all over BGT face book how it was done.Think it was cardtoon and bill in lemon last year
glowball
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This is a talent show.
Problem is the Judges are very ignorant about magician talent.
They are very knowledgeable about most other forms of entertainment, especially singing and comedy.
But are they a good judge whether a magician is skilled/talented? Answer is "no".

They can judge whether it was a good show, but that is whole different issue as to who is "talented".
Just because the judges get fooled, does this mean the person is "talented"?

Traditionally magic competitions reward entertainment value, but they also place a high weight on originality and technical skill (examples are: multiplying balls, split fan card productions, cut and restored rope, etc) that require a lot of manipulation.
The BGT an AGT judges are not qualified to evaluate neither originality nor technical skill of magicians (they constantly get fooled by the most basic card forces and automatic tricks that thousands of magicians are doing every day).
Most traditional magic competitions will have at least one "lay" judge, but the above two categories will not be on their score sheet, the experienced magician judges do that.

Being able to fool and entertain an audience is the most important thing in a magic act, however a competition is supposed to be comparing skill and originality of competing contestants.
There are thousands of entertaining singers and some impersonators that are very good, but does that put them in the same talent level as top singers? Maybe, maybe not.

The beauty about magic is that a person that is not talented period, can entertain an audience with their tricks if presented well. This is both a blessing and a curse.
The blessing is that a 100 thousand people can become a "magician" and have a lot of fun doing it and feel special and entertain a lot of people.

The curse is that when audiences get educated as to how easily most tricks are done
they may take the attitude "Oh, anyone can do that, even an 8 year old, if they buy the trick and practice a little bit".

In the case of the 8 year old who has very little technical skill but a great personality and great presentation skills I suspect there are thousands of 8 year olds
world wide who could do just as well if they had the same resources available.

A major question the BGT/AGT judges need to answer is "how much skill/talent did it take to perform the magic act"? And does that skill/talent warrant displacing other contestants?
But they will never do this evaluation because the bottom line is they don't care, they want a good TV show regardless of how it was accomplished.
Gaz Lawrence
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Excellent post glowball perfectly put . I may add that loads of very untalentented performers also get through purely on the novelty fact whatever genre of performing arts they do . I still think Issy is a very talented little 8 year old and it takes a lot of nerve to do those live shows so congrats and hats off to her Tarik 🙂
Martin Pulman
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If you appear on these shows and perform a shop-bought effect rather than your own original routine, you are doing so knowing that the workings of the effect will immediately be exposed on the internet (and in this case a national newspaper). I see little to admire in that.
Gaz Lawrence
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£3/£4K
Shop effect it's hardly an everyday magician prop Tarik 🙂
Martin Pulman
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Quote:
On Sep 21, 2017, Tarik Flash wrote:
£3/£4K
Shop effect it's hardly an everyday magician prop Tarik 🙂

I feel sorry for the magicians who paid £3k for it, only to have it exposed on prime time TV by an 8 year old.
glowball
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I agree with all the last several posts (they are not contradictory as she used 2 easy to obtain dealer items: the suction box, and the special deck of cards).
My thoughts:

1. She is talented. But currently not as a magician. Talented as a product spokes person, poised, self confident, great personality, could make a great replacement for Oprah. Areas that can make a lot more money than most magicians. Eventually with a lot of practice I suppose she could be the next Juliana Chen (you never know). Any prizes she got lately should probably be awarded to the inventor of the suction box and the inventor of the "chalk" board.

2. Most accomplished magicians established their technical skills ie: their credibility as magicians, before using any great self working tricks, if any. She had no credibility and that is why she got exposed.

3. Several years ago in Vegas I saw Steve Wyrick and Lance Burton and they both did difficult hand skill tricks. Juliana Chen did/does magnificent slight of hand. This establishes their credibility in the audience minds. Sigfried and Roy and Copperfield less so, but their name recognition is so great they didn't need to (in their early years I bet they did). Jonathan Pendragon started as a stunt man and after getting into magic he developed some decent card skills such as a credible z----w shuffle etc.

4. I wish that there was a law (not literally) that you have to pay your dues (performing many years) before doing a big expensive illusion. Crimony, everybody and their brother is doing the sub trunk, just look at youtube. Instant magicians. In the long run the skilled slight of hand magicians may be the only ones to survive this onslaught.

She is innocent in all this. It is other more powerful people who should have known better.

Again, the people who are probably most upset (rightfully) by BGT advancing an eight year old "magician" are the magicians and performers that got bumped by an inferior magic talent.
normative
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Amen to all of the above. I'm not sure to be more infuriated with the paper or the grandad in this story. The paper for pointlessly spoiling a couple good tricks for readers who weren't even *trying* to find the methods, and grandad for turning this charming girl into a prop in an act he clearly bought, assembled, and scripted (and teaching her a pretty awful lesson about what "doing magic" means in the process). I mean, I hope I'm wrong, but it's hard for me to imagine the kid sustaining a whole lot of interest in magic when all the TV stuff is done playing out.
Colin (C.J.)
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There are a lot of bitter and jealous people on this thread. An eight year old girl has achieved more in a year than most of you have in a lifetime of magic, so you choose to knock her. Shame on you all.
The Duster
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I'm confused

So some of you are saying she got through because of the tricks - and the judges don't know how to judge magicians

I think you are suggesting if she did some card manipulation – before doing her actual routine… you think she would then deserve to go through [?]

I think the judges are 100% qualified to judge a magic act, on BGT

As they are judging her not as a magician – but as a contestant on BGT

They thought she was good, as an act and an act that would be likable in their show

Yeah they put both the worse and the best acts through [for TV/entertainment purposes] – but she was definitely put through as one of the ‘best’ acts – the criteria for best being ‘in with a chance to win the show’

It doesn’t matter who she was [old/young/male/female/dad pushed her to do it/doing it for her dying goldfish etc] the tricks were always going to get revealed

Hard to perform tricks – or not

Please just check out any previous BGT contestant that got through to the finals – they all had their tricks revealed on YouTube, by the papers, digital spy, everywhere

They all were

The reason you guys are angry about / towards her – is that you feel like she has got this easy. Because her granddad helped her. That’s not her fault. No need to hate her for that.

I think the thread legitimately could be about how all acts on BGT / AGT get their routines revealed and whether acts should stop going on these shows – as it seems counterproductive to every working magician/inventor of effects for them to do so.

Maybe The Magic Circle/etc should issue an edict that anyone who goes on the shows gets a life ban

Ok won’t happen

But that’s a much better thread then this one about how evil this girl is for not being able to Faro
glowball
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"Hateful" and "Evil"? Your words, not ours.
We have said "Charming", "poised, self confident, great personality".
On the flip side we have said she is not a tallented magician, but could be become one.
Our disappointment is with the adults who have exploited her.
If its not a "talent" contest then maybe they should remove the word "Talent" and change the name to "Britain's Got Show"
and call it BGS or make it even shorter by removing the "G".
The Duster
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You miss the point

It is a talent contest

It is NOT a magic contest

Being a young act always gets you votes [if you are good/capture the imagination] - used to be called the 'granny vote'

She entered a talent contest

It's not a who is technically the best magician show

She did an act and the audience, in the studio and at home loved it

Doesn't matter if you think it was bad, you are allowed to think that, it doesn't change that she did well and was popular
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