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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Memorizing a new stack (3 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

jimturnpaugh
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I was just reading about the new Wood Aragon book on mem deck that is coming out. I already know Mnemonica and I'm wondering if I decide to go all in and try to memorize Wood's stack how much trouble I will have? The main problem would be confusing it with the one I already know. I may be putting the cart before the horse anyway. I don't even have the book yet. It's just that awhile back I thought about trying to go to the aronson stack to get some other effects out of the mem deck. I'm just looking for thoughts and ideas I see that Vanishing inc is also selling a special ebook for memorizing the Aragon stack in conjunction with the new book.
Tom G
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I think that special ebook is by Memory Arts, visual mnemonics. Didn't work for me but got lots of good reviews.
pierredan
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Quote:
On Apr 28, 2017, Tom G wrote:
I think that special ebook is by Memory Arts, visual mnemonics. Didn't work for me but got lots of good reviews.


What did not work for you? I thought it would have been perfect, if only it provided 52 images instead of 26.

As for learning a new stack, Woody's stack would have to provide a net advantage over mnemonica for me to commit to a new stack. I find it interesting that Woody's stack appears to be a couple of shuffle away from Mnemonica order... I wonder why he felt the need to change the master's stack and not come up with a completely new stack. I look forward to reading his book.
websmith2000
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I thought learning two stacks would create confusion as well. But out of curiousity I tried and found the problem didn't occur. Perhaps it is like memorizing several phone numbers. You keep everything straight even though they are simply bunches of numbers.
Waterloophai
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Give me ONE good reason to learn a second stack. (there isn't)
Unless it is a hobby of course to learn different stacks instead of performing with a (one) stack.
Harry Lorayne
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I've written a book (or ten) JUST FOR YOU, Jim.
[email]harrylorayne@earthlink.net[/email]

http://www.harrylorayne.com
http://www.harryloraynemagic.com
jimturnpaugh
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Yes memory arts is the ebook. They say they created a special one for woodys stack. I think I'll probably get the book plus the ebook because it discounted then decide if I want to learn the second stack after reading the book. It's interesting that you say they two stacks didn't interfere with each other. Also you make a good point about phone numbers. As for one good reason I guess if one stack had a trick you really like that for some reason couldn't be done in the one you know. Kind of like why you chose to memorize one stack over another. The plus to woodys is if there is one of his you really like you can go back and forth between mnemonica and his. You'd of course have to memorize his stack. He says there's a chapter at the end explaining why he created his own stack and why it's just a variation of mnemonica.
marc_carrion
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Quote:
On Apr 29, 2017, Waterloophai wrote:
Give me ONE good reason to learn a second stack. (there isn't)
Unless it is a hobby of course to learn different stacks instead of performing with a (one) stack.


Being able to shuffle from one to another so you can do effects in both stacks while shuffling the deck (Rito de Iniciacion (which I cann't find explained anywhere) uses the 8 different stacks that you can get from faro shuffling from Mnemonica)
Or taking advantage of different built-in effects in the stack. There are built-in effects in the Aronson that do not work in Mnemonica and the other way around, or Si Stebbins (think poker deals for instance, or the stay stack), or how much is built-in in the first half versus the second half... are there poker deals built-in in the first half only? and hand called for in the first half? think what you can do, you can REALLY shuffle and still deliver any called for hand on a poker deal.

Summarizing, aside from the obvious use for the stack, there are built-in that you can take advantage, so you may want to use one or another based on what you want to show.
Or you can do some stack effects, shuffle the deck (very carefully Smile ) and be ready to continue with stack effects
Waterloophai
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I wish you much success with studying as much stacks as you can 😊
marc_carrion
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Not for me Smile I use mnemonica and I will try to learn Woody's but not trying to learn more than that.
Joshua Barrett
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Are more poker deals worth it to ya? lol. Rarely have stack dependent effects sparked enough interest for me to really even try them.
marc_carrion
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Hi Joshua, Waterloophai asked for one reason to learn more than one stack. I gave you a couple. Those may not be good enough reasons for a lot of magicians, but they may be good enough reasons for others. You may pierce your arm so you can perform needle through arm, or that trick may not be worth the effort. Some people gets tattoos with cards for revelations, others pierce their nipples ( pick a nip from Jason Dean), but not for me either... so, there are reason for some magicians to learn more than one stack, that does not mean that everyone should learn more than one (not even one for that matter).

So, your question, wort it to me? no, but worth it to others? maybe
Waterloophai
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Quote:
On May 1, 2017, marc_carrion wrote:
Hi Joshua, Waterloophai asked for one reason to learn more than one stack.


Correction. I asked for one GOOD reason. I am a memdeck fanatic for more than ten years.
In 1985 I already gave lectures about "stacks". I know what I am talking about.
marc_carrion
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Quote:
On May 1, 2017, Waterloophai wrote:
Quote:
On May 1, 2017, marc_carrion wrote:
Hi Joshua, Waterloophai asked for one reason to learn more than one stack.


Correction. I asked for one GOOD reason. I am a memdeck fanatic for more than ten years.
In 1985 I already gave lectures about "stacks". I know what I am talking about.


Good is a relative term. What is good for you may not be good for someone else, and the other way around. I gave you TWO reasons for someone who wants to learn more than one stack. If the build in effects and the ability to shuffle from one to the other does not appeal to you, then you don't need to learn another stack, but don't discourage others who want to do it. There are TWO good reasons for doing it.

Marc
Joshua Barrett
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I was responding in general to the OP. I did not state there are no reasons one might do it. Just my time/benefit analysis and a attempt at humor.
It's not just about learning another stack. You can do that in a afternoon. The time is spending studying all the routines that one might use with that stack. I do other things than card magic. So it's about priority and time management. So in my view I'd rather spend some time working with I.T. or practicing coin work than doubling up the ways I can do gambling demos with a stacked deck.
Steven Leung
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I am just that kind of 'loser' who cannot remember a stack no matter what methods I tried for a decade.

I tried hard memory recite it, it does not work.

I tried apps,finished the game, and the memory goes.

Peg system, as a chinese it does not work in my language...

I am not happy with that but it is ok, I still love memorized deck magic and have huge respect on those who use it well. Looking forward to Woody Aragon book and hopefully he has some better ideas how to memorize a stack.
Most memorable moment - with Maestro Juan Tamariz & Consuelo Lorgia in FISM Busan 2018.

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Ultrahaggis
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I've been learning Woody's stack since the weekend and up to 30 cards, almost done..

I'm learning by 'brute force' rather than pegs or images but there's some really nice patterns in it which
I expect are there on purpose, but don't have the book yet with the tips for learning.

eg in the first half of the deck
if there's two red cards next to each other the suits are always in the same order
same for black pairs
symmetry in the 1-15 block

things like that I'm finding really useful
Francois Lagrange
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Guys, if you have an Android phone, you could do worse than downloading this free app: MemDeckPro

Excellent app for memorized deck. Many settings and quite intuitive.
Protect me from my friends, I'll take care of my enemies.
marc_carrion
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Quote:
On May 4, 2017, Ultrahaggis wrote:
I've been learning Woody's stack since the weekend and up to 30 cards, almost done..

I'm learning by 'brute force' rather than pegs or images but there's some really nice patterns in it which
I expect are there on purpose, but don't have the book yet with the tips for learning.

eg in the first half of the deck
if there's two red cards next to each other the suits are always in the same order
same for black pairs
symmetry in the 1-15 block

things like that I'm finding really useful


The patterns in the first half of the deck are intentional. In his lecture Woody talks about how he put this stack together, and there are some build-in effects in the first half so you can use half stack, and shuffle the other half. Steven Youell has a nice touch on the Zarrow Shuffle to keep a color separation (red/black) that can be applied to keeping half the stack.

Also, Woody recomends to learn just the 26 first cards at the beginning. To the point that you can walk through the deck and separate 26/26 as easy as if they were red/black (you can use his Separagon, or Green's divide).

I just got the email that my order has been shipped Smile
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