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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 15717 Posts 
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It is a shame punch marks are so obvious.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 17, 2017, Chris wrote: INCORRECT! If you'd actually seen one of Risers punches as you claim to have, you'd know the it's NOT a needle, it's a screw. It's adjustable to a microscopic amount by turning the SCREW with an allen wrench. The set screw can then be either tightened up if your setting is permanent, or it can be left loose if you make constant adjustments. So - "yeah" Risers punch uses a threaded screw - and was released at least ten years before you claim to have "invented" such a device. (before you decide to attempt to continue debate with me, I have one of Risers punches sitting right in front of me as I type this). You invented nothing whatsoever, but you certainly did rip-off Risers original design for a punch. |
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Gary Plants Special user 551 Posts
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To add a bit more to this convesation, in 1995 I had 50 punches made up by Randall Wentwoth who owned the Missippi Card Company in Texas. These were all made with the pin fit into the set screw. I gave Steve Forte for his collection. I still have one and I know Ricky Smith bought one. This was way earlier than Jim Risers punch. Jim is a good friend and I have bought several of his punches that he has made. I am sure Jim did not rip me off and I am just writing this to show that it's impossible to know what has been created in earlier times. Feel free to PM if you want to see a photo of my punch. I stopped selling them when Randall passed away.
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Chris Inner circle lybrary.com 1206 Posts
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First of all I didn't say I invented it. I looked at several punches over the years and have come up with something I consider an improvement. If others have done the same or similar great. I did not copy them. Nevertheless, what you are describing regarding one of Riser punches is still different. You are probably not an engineer to understand the difference, but the Riser punch uses an additional locking device - the setscrew. Mine does not. The locking is built in by appropriate material choices. If you have a metal screw in metal threads without locking it will eventually loosen and the depth will change. That's not good. That would be a bad design. In my design the locking is achieved by the choice of a nylon body. And please show me where Riser's punch uses the flexure mechanism I am using - show me any punch that uses that or similar mechanism. To the best of my knowledge there is none. Your accusations are laughable silly.
Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 15717 Posts
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I think one could make one with a watch press
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Small-......hvFZB3fm
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 17, 2017, Chris wrote: Neither am I a condescending blowhard, but I do understand how a screw works. I've not tightened the set-screw on Risers punch since I first set it around 8 years ago. It's never moved, and the depth of the bump on a card is precisely the same today as it was on a card made 8 years ago. In the simplest of terms, you don't know of what you speak. |
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 15717 Posts
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Do the punches you fellows are speaking about have a female side to then or are they male sided only?
http://www.janoschka.com/know-how/encycl......bossing/
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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Chris Inner circle lybrary.com 1206 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 17, 2017, Artie Fufkin wrote: The only blowhard is you by making silly accusations you can't back up. Quote:
On Jun 17, 2017, Artie Fufkin wrote: Clearly you don't. Quote:
On Jun 17, 2017, Artie Fufkin wrote: Riser added a setscrew for good reasons. I eliminated the setscrew and use a nylon lock nut design. Two different things. You can't understand the difference. That's ok.
Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time.
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Artie Fufkin Special user 853 Posts
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On Jun 18, 2017, Chris wrote: Like I said, condescending blowhard. If you want to hawk your junk here on the Magic Café, take out an ad. |
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Chris Inner circle lybrary.com 1206 Posts
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I don't hawk my junk, I defend myself against your silly accusations. (BTW, I do have a standing ad on the Magic Café.)
What is your beef? You are so desperately trying to show that I copied Riser when a child can see that I didn't. First mine are 3D printed. That involves a complete redesign to make these objects print well. I don't see you get all worked up when others 3D print say a chop cup. Why don't you scream 'copyist' there? Then I used a different adjustment/locking mechanism. You can't understand the difference but that is ok. On top my Blistr uses a new flexure design for a more convenient pliers like use. In other words what I am offering is fundamentally different in many ways. What's your beef?
Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time.
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1532 Posts
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Chris, the chop cup is a poor example.
I would like to see someone print a true chop cup in one pass. Oh and Al Wheatley invented the chop cup. I don't recall anyone making claims they did. Artie, Chris is going to rationalize his actions regardless. However, thanks for presenting your facts. Riser has no patent (yes/no?), so he is exposed to plagiarism. And similar devices have been made in the past. This is the claim Chris is trying to defend. I am unconvinced (in my unqualified opion). Limited market, smaller supply, you have your options, now decided. 
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 22682 Posts
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On Jun 17, 2017, Cagliostro wrote: I agree. Most hustlers I know go with what works. They go with what they were taught and with what has worked under fire their whole lives. The only thing I ever heard as a concern is does it bring more money?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts
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The title of this thread is: Looking for a card punch, presumably to decide which is best based upon individual need. At this point, I am so confused I have decided never to buy a card punch. Instead I am going to buy a Nickels to Dimes trick.]
However, I don't mean to get involved in any controversy as I am not acquainted with the micro details of different card punches...but... On a practical level, if a punch satisfies the purchaser and does what it is supposed to do in a reliable manner, what else matters? |
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1532 Posts
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I was kidding a couple of post ago about thingyverse.
Now I am seriously thinking of uploading a card punch for free, so you can print one for yourself for just the cost of materials. Of course you will need a 3D printer, access to one or willing to pay a small amount to be printed. Bad idea? Comments? |
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Cagliostro Inner circle 2478 Posts
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Okay...if this thread gets to be 10 pages long, I am going to jump off a very tall building - head first.
We are now 30% towards that objective. So...if you want to see Cagliostro jump off a tall building, you have your assignment laid out for you. Of course, if I were Superman I could leap tall buildings...but... Wait a minute, what does this have to do with card punches. Actually it has a lot to do with this subject matter, but that concept is so dark and esoteric, it is only for the genetic offspring of the original Illuminati members to possess. Hint: The punch in question is based upon the Golden Ratio, which is also called the Golden Mean or Golden Section (Latin: sectio aurea) in which the ratio of the longer side to the shorter is the golden ratio, i.e. 1.618...This proportion in art is believed to be aesthetically pleasing. The golden ratio is seen throughout nature, including in the spiral arrangement of leaves and other plant parts. This ratio when used in the construction of a card punch produces the perfect punch, both in size, depth and positioning of the indention in addition to the aesthetic enjoyment one derives from possessing such a wondrous device. 
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1532 Posts
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Scarce geometry, the possibilities are endless.
Oh, I invented fire and the wheel. So MY card punch will be like what no man has ever witness! ... ever so closer to page ten. |
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Chris Inner circle lybrary.com 1206 Posts
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Quote:
On Jun 18, 2017, Jerry wrote: Jerry, now you have me confused. Are you saying Riser invented the card punch? Are you saying that nobody else but Riser is allowed to make a card punch? I simply came up with two renditions of card punches which have new aspects not seen before in card punches. Anybody can decide what they like to use. I only take issue with baseless accusations.
Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time.
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Jerry Inner circle Some where in Florida 1532 Posts
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Question one - No
Question two - No Statement "...new aspects not seen before...", not going to get into that dog mess. IF Riser has no patent on HIS card punch, then he is open to plagiarism. Anyone with a 3D printer can copy his punch. I am not stating anyone has, I don't know. Of course a lawyer that specializes in copyrights might say I am wrong, I am not one. Just like I could release a STL file with card punch to public, so it could cheaply be printed on a 3D printer. Clear now? Closer to page ten. |
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Chris Inner circle lybrary.com 1206 Posts
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What is it then you and the Fufkin dude accusing me of?
BTW, copyrights wouldn't be involved here. Copyrights deal with the written word, sound recordings, film, drawings...that kind of stuff. We are talking about a physical thing. Riser can't have a patent because punches have been around for hundreds of years. He could have a design patent that protects the design, meaning the shape and look of it. Since my punches are different in shape, size, material, etc. they could not possibly infringe any design patent he might have for his punches. But I am sure Riser has not registered any patents for his punches.
Lybrary.com preserving magic one book at a time.
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rowdymagi5 Inner circle Virginia 3740 Posts
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In my opinion you can take Riser completely out of the conversation. Myself and two friends tried for months to buy one of his punches. No luck. That guy is so paranoid that someone will use one of his devices to cheat at a card game that he only sells to people he apparently really knows well. So I would not offer his product as a comparison since it is not readily available for a comparison (unless you are just comparing pictures)
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Posted: Jun 17, 2017 07:42 pm 
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