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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » SansMinds Magic » » CGI By James Keatley (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MazingMandy
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Quote:
On May 12, 2017, Fatgumbo wrote:
Quote:
On May 12, 2017, MazingMandy wrote:
Rip off product. Plus the rubik cube ou get (the one shown in demo at 1 min 41 on the table with the lego brick and dice) are not colured to match a normal cube, the colours are in a different permutation. That shows a suvbe with blue and green enxt to each other when the standard colouts have red and green on oppiste sides, so you wont be able to use this cube in other cube matching routines.


How is this a rip-off of? This and the other trick with the 8-ball are all based on using flap cards. Several tricks with the same or similar plot have been released over the years:

X-tension
X-Change
Visualize
Frame
Ink-a-Change

This concept has been done over and over again, does any trick that involve a flap card mean its a rip-off too?

p.s this is not exposure- it's clearly stated on the penguin product page what the methodology is. you're paying for the ready-made gimmick and gimmicked items


Ink-a-change wasn't a flap card, I cant speak for the rest
stookie31
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On May 12, 2017, The Greek wrote:
On 29 October 2011, following a lengthy period of development Magic Tao released Pop Art. The basic principle behind this effect was to have an item ie. a pack of playing cards, pop out of a notebook. To the best of my
knowledge this principle was new and had not been done before. It has however, been done many times since.

At the same time 3D Realisation was also released by Magic Tao. This was based on the principle of an 8 ball appearing from a playing card; on the front of which was a sticker of an 8 ball. So, a track record from six
plus years ago of releasing effects using stickers, playing cards and real, 3D items that appear from the card or notebook.

James Keatley showed me a video of his initial idea for CGI in June 2016. Our conversations about CGI started many months before at a time when Magic Tao was working on a pocket size version of Pop Art. James’s
idea for CGI was therefore timely and CGI in its current form has now been released. CGI is an evolution of the principles behind both Pop Art and 3D realisation; that’s how magic works.

As for any similarity with work by Steve Rowe, any similarities are purely coincidental. To the best of my knowledge the gimmicks involved in CGI are different.

Where magicians work on something that doesn’t always make them a pioneer; there is every possibility that someone else has done something similar before. I believe that in 2011 the idea of making things ‘pop’ from
a playing card, or a notebook was new, had not been done before and was therefore pioneering. Anything after that is progression, not original. If there is an effect where an object ‘pop’s from a card, and it pre-dates
2010/2011, then it seems we’re all wrong!


Hi Costas, can you please post a video of an item poping off the back of a playing card?
Can't seem to find anything?
Alex DLF
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Quote:
On May 12, 2017, stookie31 wrote:
Quote:
On May 12, 2017, The Greek wrote:
On 29 October 2011, following a lengthy period of development Magic Tao released Pop Art. The basic principle behind this effect was to have an item ie. a pack of playing cards, pop out of a notebook. To the best of my
knowledge this principle was new and had not been done before. It has however, been done many times since.

At the same time 3D Realisation was also released by Magic Tao. This was based on the principle of an 8 ball appearing from a playing card; on the front of which was a sticker of an 8 ball. So, a track record from six
plus years ago of releasing effects using stickers, playing cards and real, 3D items that appear from the card or notebook.

James Keatley showed me a video of his initial idea for CGI in June 2016. Our conversations about CGI started many months before at a time when Magic Tao was working on a pocket size version of Pop Art. James’s
idea for CGI was therefore timely and CGI in its current form has now been released. CGI is an evolution of the principles behind both Pop Art and 3D realisation; that’s how magic works.

As for any similarity with work by Steve Rowe, any similarities are purely coincidental. To the best of my knowledge the gimmicks involved in CGI are different.

Where magicians work on something that doesn’t always make them a pioneer; there is every possibility that someone else has done something similar before. I believe that in 2011 the idea of making things ‘pop’ from
a playing card, or a notebook was new, had not been done before and was therefore pioneering. Anything after that is progression, not original. If there is an effect where an object ‘pop’s from a card, and it pre-dates
2010/2011, then it seems we’re all wrong!


Hi Costas, can you please post a video of an item poping off the back of a playing card?
Can't seem to find anything?


With Frame, you could, it was on the trailer. But it was more a production than a "pop" Smile at 27 seconds

Get yourself the Flap Cards guide : http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/4435

Make sure to check my review website, new reviews coming every week ! http://lesavisdalexis.wix.com/reviews
stookie31
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Quote:
On May 12, 2017, The Greek wrote:
As for any similarity with work by Steve Rowe, any similarities are purely coincidental. To the best of my knowledge the gimmicks involved in CGI are different.


You had a stand next to mine over two years ago and saw I was selling very successfully my version of an item coming off the back of a playing card.
8 ball, love hearts, lollypop, gum coming form the back of the playing card.
paTRICKY
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I'm not condoning this whatsoever, but copying products has become so prevalent in in general these days, not just in the magic realm, that it almost doesn't pay to invent any longer. Wouldn'y you say that Lolly Thru, selling on your site, is a blatant rip off of The Stealth Pen selling on Penguin? Sure, it uses a different item (lolly VS pen), but isn't that similar to the 8-ball VS puzzle cube argument with this affect? Pretty much the same method/gimmick, with just a slight change...
Who gets credit? I know that the Stealth Pen also wasn't the first to do either, as I'm sure it goes way back...but the fact is that there will always be others who release similar gimmicks, and use similar methods, who change things just enough that folks will want to buy the "new" trick.

P.S. It would be nice if Penguin actually posted negative reviews as they do with the positive ones. They are really weasely that way. I'm very unimpressed with them in that sense. I just need to post that wherever I can, since they won't post it for me. :p
stookie31
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I totally understand and accept development, it;s how magic moves forward.
And I fully credit for my inspiration on lolly thru.

My gripe, is this...last year, costas messaged me to ask for a quote on his new product.
I said I could not possibly as it was so close to my own work.

At no point did he voice any concern as to my reaction.

He as I state above, had a stand directly next to me at dealers days where he saw me selling my product.

Absolutely nowhere along the line is costas acknowledging the fact I've had input in the developement of ideas, even saying its co-incidence.

IF we as a community accept this as being ok...no credit...no acknoledgment...I am unsure where magic is heading.

I'm done with this now, I've said my piece, costas has made his stance very clear.
The Greek
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As to the history and chronology I have posted above.

In response to Steve Rowe’s earlier request for a video of something popping out of a playing card I sent Steve Rowe a private Facebook message of the following.

https://youtu.be/LVO_RP3n5fs

It shows a sticker on a playing card from a trick I released in 2011 called 3D Realization – any popping of objects can be seen on the footage that accompanies the effect. I have also been selling the stickers and flat discs from this project at conventions for the past 4 years. Where someone says they haven’t seen a sticker on a playing card that changes into the physical object doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist, it just means that they haven’t seen it. In this case it does exist and pre-dates the material released by Steve Rowe.

Steve Rowe states in this thread that I had a stand at the magic circle dealer day last year and saw his 8 ball production trick. James Keatley showed Steve Rowe the initial footage he put together for our future release CGI and Steve responded with “I like it”. He asked if James had a copy with him. There was no instance of Steve Rowe saying any of the stuff he is saying on the forums about this being similar to his work. Steve was also selling a holder for an 8 ball – an idea similar to the item that was included in the project in 2011 and which has sold to many people in the years since.

After I posted earlier on the history of CGI Steve then mentions the same convention a year earlier. Why is this relevant? It could imply that his ideas were ‘stolen’; they were not; please refer to my earlier post regards timing and chronology.

As for lack of credit, Steve Rowe’s releases contain no credit to Magic Tao for an 8 ball sticker turning into a real 8 ball or for the holder attached to you with the 8 ball inside ready for palming for the load; effectively 3D Realization. I am not making an issue of this, merely making an observation.

Steve is correct, after the convention last year I did contact him on the 4th November and asked him for a quote to use with CGI. The reason I asked him for a quote was because he had commented to James Keatley that he liked the effect – quite reasonable to approach him for a quote I thought.

Steve Rowe wrote the following ‘My gripe, is this...last year, Costas messaged me to ask for a quote on his new product. I said I could not possibly as it was so close to my own work. At no point did he voice any concern as to my reaction’.

For the record, THIS IS NOT TRUE.

I did voice my concern. After he stated that he couldn’t give a quote as it was a direct progression of his own work, I replied as follows.
“Steve this isn't a progression in your work at all. I have no idea where you got that idea from. I released Pop Art 5 years ago which I am re-releasing and this is a pocket version of an object popping out of something.”

I had no further reply.
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Fatgumbo
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To Alex dlf:

I didn't say frame used the same method. Nor inkachange. I said it was a similar plot and you had actually thought of producing a coin or an object from a card first, as others were trying to call this one a rip off.

However , after looking st the method for frame, I wish it was a flap card. It would've made the method twice as good- the method you put on the instructional video worked about 50% of the time and broke after three tries after I took it out for the DVD

I will say however I've seen the appear8 gimmick and it's made better than the usual gaffs due to the material used

Wondering if CGI uses l**** instead of ET
stookie31
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On May 13, 2017, Fatgumbo wrote:
I will say however I've seen the appear8 gimmick and it's made better than the usual gaffs due to the material used


Thank you, it's a difficult material to work with, the gimmicks take much longer to make as well, which is why most others shy away from it.
But the pay off is longevity and consistency.

Sometimes other products 'come with extras to 'fix' the gimmick' ... I'm not sure what that says about the gimmick.
You don't want breakages during performance.

I'm a worker so make my products for workers or hobbyists who want quality.
Paul S Wingham
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On May 15, 2017, MazingMandy wrote:
Since Costas refuses to even acknowledge the terrible reputation his MagicTao online shop has garnered for non-delivery of orders I will never spend any money on anything he is involved with.

He obviously has the time to concont a reply to ths thead, yet prefers to ignore this issue and leave his other customers hanging until they have to issue Paypal fraud requests.

Shame on you Costas


In case anyone was thinking of ordering from magic Tao; caveat emptor - buyer beware! Personally, It'd be a cold day in hell before I gave magic tao any of my money, given that they lack the courage to even hold their hands up and say "sorry; we messed up".

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......orum=218
MazingMandy
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Why were my comments asking Costas to respond to the concerns over Magic Tao's reputation deleted?

He is here, and posting on the Café on this thread at least, so surely an ideal time to respond to the other issues also?
drstevemagic
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My post asking for less bickering and more reviews was deleted as well.
Stucky
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Seems my actual feedback is gone as well. TAO must be a Café advertiser.
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MazingMandy
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Costas , when is this released?
JonathanW
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On Jun 5, 2017, MazingMandy wrote:
Costas , when is this released?


http://www.penguinmagic.com/p/7319 it's already out?
pegasus
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Never, ever order direct from Magic Tao. Order from Penguin if you ever wish to receive your product.
kris
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CGI Review

When I first seen CGI on the web I thought, Wow I love the look of this it was different and very Visual too , so few days later it arrived on my door step I opened up the package and my first impression was they have gone all out on the packaging of the product so far it looks good. I opened the box to learn the trick and see what you get with this so you get the special gimmick inside also a mini Rubik's cube a lego peace and finally a dice and some other bits to make the effect look visual too. The download goes in real depth on how to do the effect and also teaches you how to maintain the card gimmick. Overall the effect is very easy to and fun to play with..
MikeLiu
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How close can you do it to someone ?
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » SansMinds Magic » » CGI By James Keatley (11 Likes)
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