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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
A very nice thread from 2004 discussed the lift shuffle. As a supplement, I have the following question. How important is it to keep the outer ends of the shuffled off cards aligned with the stolen packet? I have trouble doing the latter. When I steal, I have to jam the stolen cards up high into my fight hand while moving my right ring finger it of the way in order to align the cards - a move that I'd think spectators would notice. I'd appreciate any thoughts.
Hard to correct typos on an iPad. By fight I meant right. By finger it I meant finger out. In one of Giobbi's card college videos, there,s a momentary but clear view of the outer ends of the packets. They're perfectly aligned. Thanks, everybody! Regards, Bob. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
A clarification. When I wrote "ends" I should have said "long edges at bottom" or "the edges that were at the left when pack was in dealers grip but are now at bottom since the deck is now in overhand grip." What a mouthful -- hope that made sense. So my question is about how to make the bottom edges of the two packets flush wit each other.
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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts |
It's not necessary they line up perfectly on the bottom edges. Been using this for over 15 years. The other packets of cards coming off during the shuffle will cover any misalignments. Try it in the mirror and do the shuffle at normal speed. The up and down movement of the shuffling hand creates enough of a blur it will not be noticed.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks Bobby, that's helpful to know. I'll try the mirror, as you suggested.
Bob |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1426 Posts |
I was wondering if anyone has found a more refined version of the lift shuffle. my source is the third dvd of card college. It is well done.
I know it is pretty undetectable if done at a nice pace. But I was wondering of any sources for refining this move so the packets are more aligned, etc. it is just such a deceptive move that it seems to deserve some refinement. |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
I love this move, it’s great and versatile (see CC for several applications). Moreover, here in Europe, it is the only shuffle people know. Riffle shuffle is rather exotic here.
The two packets can be aligned, but as Bobby said, I don’t think it is absolutely necessary. But I remember having the same problem. I relaxed the right ring finger and I go further down with the right hand so the stolen packet is allowed to go higher, deeper in the right hand. It’s not easy to do. When I was learning the technique, I missed often the left hand packet to steal and it was protruding from under the right hand. Keep working on that technique Bob, it’s a wonderful tool. I like the force explained in CC using it. |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
Now, in the mirror, I can see a little V shape which should not be there, or visible. As the hands are always in movement so I think it’s ok. But there is some place for improvement and countrymaven said it right, there is some refinement to explore. I don’t remember having seen the move on Giobbi dvd. I need to check it out.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
I love it too, Rachmaninov. Since initiating this thread, I've been practicing the lift shuffle a lot, and it's a lot better. But I haven't checked in the mirror for a while. I know the move is on the Giobbi dvd, but it's been long enough that I don't remember where.
The move can be used as a control and as a force, and of course, to control the top stock. I even saw a youtube video (no credit given to inventor, unfortunately) in which the lift shuffle was "generalized" to a full-deck false shuffle. One issue I've sometimes wondered about: How fast do you have to shuffle to make these techniques invisible? I've seen people shuffle so fast on youtube that they could be doing *anything* -- not clear that they're actually shuffling! I'd think that would be *too* fast. We want spectators to be aware that we're shuffling, even if they can't see the exact details. So for me the question is, what does it take to hide any secret moves at moderate shuffling speeds? My guess is that even fairly deliberate shuffling is enough motion to cover just about anything we do, but I'm sure there are experts out there who could tell us if that's true. Bob |
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landmark Inner circle within a triangle 5194 Posts |
Rhythm is more important than speed. Study the rhythm of a legit overhand shuffle.
Click here to get Gerald Deutsch's Perverse Magic: The First Sixteen Years
All proceeds to Open Heart Magic charity. |
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countrymaven Inner circle 1426 Posts |
RAch, thanks so much. Yes, the overhand shuffle becomes much more important as close up magic has become more aligned with strolling away from tables.
for the Lift Shuffle, I have tried out methods of aligning the front part of the packets, while keeping a break in the back. This makes it nearly invisible to spectators. I CANT BELIEVE IT. I just took a break and worked out how to do it. Of course I can't share it. It would have to be a video. it is just so nice to have the front edges of the deck aligned and to be able to choose the size of break you have at the back with the thumb. And not to worry about injogs or outjogs!!! thanks guys |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
OMG, that’s a great idea to explore ! I have to try it, more later !
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countrymaven Inner circle 1426 Posts |
RAch I will make a video or explanation for you and others who are interested.
after all, if you are Rach, you can rock! the piano concerto number two especially. see, why bother with all of this injog and outjog when you can do it without all of that. of course it is good, but this makes the lift shuffle almost the preferred or one of the top two? shuffles for strolling and non table magic. which is 99% of real world magic. so pardon me yes the overhand with injog out... is essential but this is just a killer. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Countrymaven,
Count me in! I'm definitely interested in seeing what you've worked out. Thanks, Bob |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Landmark, thanks for your comment about rhythm. I've always assumed that the rhythm should be steady -- so, for instance, in the lift shuffle, you wouldn't want to take extra time with the initial "steal." Is there more to it than that?
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magicwiia Regular user 120 Posts |
I'd like to revive this excellent thread that Bob G started and is on topic with a question I have. I have no problem doing an overhand shuffle and feel each shuffle movement is under control. The problem I'm having is the shuffled-off packet keeps hitting the removed shuffled cards which are now in the palm of my receiving hand. This contact is messing up the mechanics of my shuffle.
I've watched the Lifted Shuffle mechanics on both the Card College and False Shuffles and Cuts Project DVDs. Something I'm doing is wrong which is causing contact where there shouldn't be any and I don't know how to begin to correct it. Any suggestions or advice? |
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Rachmaninov Inner circle 1076 Posts |
A video of your problem would clarify things and we could maybe help you. I don’t see precisely what is your problem with this technique.
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
That's a good idea, Rachmaninov. I think I'll post a video too, as my lift shuffle tends to get hung up right at the beginning when I catch the first packet that I shuffle off. In the last year or so I've been posting videos for people to critique, and their comments have been *so* helpful. Countrymaven, if you've made a video I'd be interested in seeing it.
By the way, Rach, I'm still really busy at work. I'll try to send you a quick email this weekend. Bob |
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kShepher Elite user Washington, DC 470 Posts |
Bob...here we go again. The same problem with the same sleight.
Angle the front end of deck on the decent and create a V at the back. For me...this shuffle is automatic now. Why? Practice. Seriously...just practice it and you'll get it. Good luck. |
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Bob G Inner circle 2831 Posts |
Thanks, Kevin. I practiced this a lot, then gave up. I just tried now and it seemed fine. What I haven't tried is mirror practice -- so I guess that's my next step. Thanks as always for your encouragement.
One of my difficulties is that I never know when a sleight is "good enough." I need to perform more to see whether my sleights fly. See you, Bob |
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kShepher Elite user Washington, DC 470 Posts |
Bob..since your background is that of an intellectual...I think you have a tendency to over-think. This is actually easy stuff....we are not extrapolating complex math questions.
I overthink also. |
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