Big thumbs up to this. Being a hobbyist... a nobody... I really relate to this. Using material like this can also relieve your nerves in performance and help you to enjoy it much more.

It seems to me that the deeper and deeper you try to go down the rabbit hole of amazement... I think the more you will actually end up exploring effects that depend on very little (if any) sleights and much more on organized deception, coupled with well choreographed misdirection. Derren Brown is one of the very best examples of this. I once heard him say that he doesn't really enjoy much of the card magic that he used to do, because (and I am paraphrasing) the effect of the sleights weren't nearly as powerful as the effect of manipulating what people think and perceive. The words that you use can make a self-working feat seem like absolute wizardry. Also... think about using forces and peeks coupled with elaborate plots. These can be done with very simple off-beat sleights.

I would also suggest reading the words written by Hugard and Braue in Part 6, Chapter 2 of Expert Card Technique. LESS can be so much MORE.

And even though it can sometimes be taken for granted, it's worth bearing in mind that arguably the most mind-blowing of all card effects, OOTW, is effectively a SW.

The problem with SWers is that very few are impromptu from FSDIU, short and direct, and ITH (and preferably visual) - all of which are key requirements of doing social magic as a hobbyist, and I need a huge repertoire - otherwise you just don't get to perform very often.

So I love SWers, but I can't stop there and do magic anywhere near as often as I want.

Thanks for the helpful thoughts and collegial atmosphere, though

Sorry to hear about your slight crisis in confidence. I agree with most of the comments already made, just two extra thoughts. Don't use the Double lift as a benchmark for simple skill. It is a very advanced sleight to do well - I made it a project when I retired, focussed on the most natural looking method and it took me a good 6 months before it was automatic and relaxed.
Second observation is that most really good performers are self aware and play to their strengths and limitations. You are being self aware - the key now is to follow through - that is the tricky bit. You can be clumsy as heck and still be a fabulous performer - have the nerve to embrace any clumsiness, or even play to it. It could be entertaining and make the magic even more impossible, it could be the kernel of a performing persona. Try other branches of magic such as mentalism ....there is definitely room in magic for all "types" think Rob Zabrecky, Tommy Cooper, Luke Jermay.....i bet none of them fretted over their double lift!

Of course there is such a thing as in-born talent.

There is proof all around us. Little kids are totally different in the same family.

Our interests and effort do have an amazing effect on our skills but clearly in-borne talent is a lucky attribute.

Sadly there is also in-borne lack of talent in some areas too. My lack of attention to details is a way of looking at the world that would make me a poor accountant (even if I wanted to be one). Some people are not very coordinated but we all do our best. We are what we are but that doesn't stop some people from following their passion.
Sometimes, approaching a skill with an unusual mind/body set for that talent can produce different results.
People without natural skills have to find other ways to succeed (like the other basic methods of performing Magic other than sleight-of-hand. Like: secret knowledge, pre-arrangement, gaffes, ).

-Mary Mowder

Great stuff folks . I like the Café when it's like this

Chris Payne, you got the advanced DL in six months! That hardly makes me feel better. I'm into my seventh year of work with a DL!

I first learned the mechanics of the basic, get-ready DL (mentioned frequently in this topic) from a Michael Ammar tape, and got burned frequently in the beginning. I burn myself 100% of the time if I look at my hands! Over years (yes, years), I've learned to look at the spectator while squaring up the cards. I don't think my DL mechanics are that much better over the years (I'm 70!); but I don't get burned (unless perhaps my audience is magicians). However, I think the key in this and many other card sleights is 'MISDIRECTION'. Yeah, whether magic or music, practice is important; but not all of us are equally adept at mastering a certain skill. But I believe we can all have some fun with misdirection. ps I really liked Poof-Daddy's post; and I've enjoyed reading all posts. Magicians helping magicians. Lynn

There could be a few other factors at work here. First if you are "missing" a double lift a certain percentage then it sound like you are doing a strike double? There are some sleights that are just a bit "iffy" when nervous - a faro is another example. Second if you are quite isolated from other magicians your techniques could be a bit awry - with no opportunity to correct. Maybe a small investment in a video set up and sharing could be good move?

What is your source for learning sleights? There should be a double lift that is doable for you. Some of the easier ones are a bit unnatural but bulletproof - just get over the unnaturalness by conditioning the audience with an identical technique for display every time you show the top card.

One of the things I do...and I betcha a lot of others here do....is carry a deck of cards and couple silver dollars everywhere. Whenever I'm stuck in traffic, waiting for a train, waiting at the doctors..I grab my deck and play with color changes etc.

On my first date with girlfriend....cuddled close together in the dark movie theater.

She says, "what's that noise I hear????"

Me "What noise???"

She: "I keep hearing a Brrtt Brrt"

Me: " Ugh, not sure." while putting my cards back into my pocket

Hey, Terrible Wizard. Another excellent thread subject from you! Something I think we can all relate to at one time or another.

I'm going to take a different approach to the subject, and it's this: Okay, you suck. So what?

Let me explain.

Pop Haydn is one of my favorite magicians, and also a friend and mentor. (And he may be along momentarily to give you his wisdom. He's like Beetlejuice: when you say his name around here three times he shows up.) I can't do a classic pass to save my life. So I asked him to help me with it. And he did, but along the way he told me something very important. He told me I don't need a good pass, I need good misdirection. It's great if I can do a completely invisible pass right under people's noses, but I don't need that to work and be successful. What I need, he said, is good cover for a bad pass, which is a lot easier to do than a good pass. I took that to heart and apply it to everything, since there's not a move I do that I'm truly happy with.

For the DL, as an example since you brought it up, you can cover a weak DL with misdirection. For instance, you can do your get-ready, and it might be completely visible. But with a little time misdirection, it becomes invisible to the audience because it's separated in time from the actual lift. Possibly not a great example. If Pop happens by, he can quote you chapter and verse. But you get the idea. A very excellent card technician, Johnny Ace Palmer, uses a bad joke as misdirection when he does a pass. And then he even says, "That's a bad joke, but it covers a pass," and he still gets away with it because the misdirection is so effective!

So, I guess I'm saying to practice and do the best moves you can, but then stop worrying about it and just learn to use the tools you have. You can still fool 'em and be a very effective magician even when you're not a great technician, so long as you learn the art of directing and entertaining your audience. Some of these moves take decades to learn to do well. You can't wait decades to go out and perform good magic! So do the best you can, and don't worry about it. Instead, use timing, your voice, eye contact, body language, humor and the passage of time to help cover the areas you feel you're weak in. It's amazing what you can do.

There's some great input here - lots of solid advice. Hopefully this can others as well as me

I'm still plugging away - I'm naturally tenacious - hopefully it'll click.

I agree that some moves are iffy when nervous - that might be one of my key problems.

And also, yes, not being able to talk/see other magi is an issue. I'll try and work on that this year, if I can - maybe get the equipment I need to chat online or whatever. I'll see what I can do

I think we all have different abilities and I know I have plenty of limitations when it comes to a number of sleights.

There have been times when frustration is all I seem to get when practicing a move.

The thing is, I like magic - so if I'm going to perform, I need to stay in MY zone and not someone else's.

Over time, I have learned the effects that I can conquer and those that are above my pay grade---so I have made some peace with my own limitations and instead of frustration-- I gravitate to the effects that I can do well.

Thankfully those effects do exist. and I can still have fun with magic.

Pretty sure that Eugene Berger once declared that he was not going to do any more tricks in public that require DLs because he was not sure that his DL was 100% deceptive.

Lots of tools in the toolbox to create the illusion of magic.

That's a interesting quote from Burger, land am. If only all magicians were as scrupulous! I've seen some bad pro DLs (and other moves).

Virtualwizard, how did you find peace with your limitations? I really can't stand mine in any area of life. I think I wake up with a constant annoyance that I'm not omnipotent, lol

Yeah, Eugene once told me that he never uses DLs, and that he thinks it is an inherently poor and not-deceptive move. He said that anyone who knows what to look for can spot it every time it is done. As magicians, we know this to be generally true. The most deceptive one I've seen, and the one I use, is Harry Lorayne's DL, which is also used by Pop Haydn. Eugene acknowledged that it's the closest he knows to a natural turnover, but he still doesn't like it.

There are several alternatives to the DL.

Can you provide a reference to a detailed description of Harry Lorayne's DL?

I think it's in here as the "flip up" DL: https://www.magiccenterharri.com/catalog......_id=6266

It's the one done here at the 1:15 and 3:10 marks: https://youtu.be/v7zDyQqVUKc The only difference is that Pop takes it from the left corner (as I do), where Harry takes it from the center of the card.

Now, I personally like that DL. I'll tell you that Larry Jennings didn't like it, but Dai Vernon did, for whatever that's worth.

Im sorry but I think those doubles look atrocious. In my humble opinion, this is what a DL should look like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cl0rM4qpxWo&t=14s

A close second would be a strike double lift. That is what I use. Its also MUCH easier to perform. Just make sure you turn over singles and doubles exactly the same. I think most people could master a strike double in less than a day.

Les than a day! Oh my. I've been working on it for seven years ...

I use the strike too, but I'm not nearly as confident as James F, there's always the danger of missing it. The one I aspire to perfect is the one in Card College.

Terrible Wizard, have you seen the one described by 52 Kards in the link below? It's not the most natural but I have used it a couple of times with no problems - if your trick only needs the one it might be worth using if you're not confident with other types?

https://youtu.be/Gjd4EDm3EWU