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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » SansMinds Magic » » Will Tsai - AGT. Mind=Blown (119 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Steven Conner
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On Jun 10, 2017, SleepyMagic wrote:
To people saying that it isn't a good trick since the table does all the work...do you have the same view on all other gimmicks such as card and coin gimmicks?


If I pulled out a deck of cards and had someone pick a card, returned the card to the deck they just started shuffling themselves without me touching them, then it did a few fancy cuts and found my card, while this would look great, the magic is in the mechanics. Gimmicks are to enhance our skills not be robotic and watch.
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
ash2arani
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Magic-wise, it is amazing visual eye candy! The issue of table doing all work or not is irrelevant. We use gimmicks that do all the work all the time. However, the main issue which is also touched upon by Simon in the videos is the stage presence. Magic is not enough on its own. The performer needs to inject their personality and creativity to make it a full magical experience. It is easy to say but much harder to do. I am looking forward to Will taking his performance one notch up with both the magic and his stage presence.
MeetMagicMike
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Quote:
To people saying that it isn't a good trick since the table does all the work...do you have the same view on all other gimmicks such as card and coin gimmicks?


No, because they are not suspected when used properly.

Coin and cards are often understood and presented as demonstrations of skill. If a performer did an impressive multiplying balls routine and then set the balls on a table and they continued to multiply this would take away from the routine in that context.

The argument that this was really more of stage routine than a close-up one does hold weight with me. Stage routines are visual and often rely on machinery. The magician is in some ways more of a dancer who carries out choreography that suggests he is causing things to happen. Many people like stage routines but I never have. Will clearly made the right call for this venue. It's just not my cup of tea.
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Joshua Barrett
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The table did all the work eh? I guess gimmicked tables such as these design and build themselves. A bunch of armchair quarterbacks around here.
MeetMagicMike
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I for one didn't say the table did all the work. And why the hostility toward anyone who didn't love this routine? (ie armchair quarterback comment). Isn't it possible that some people have differing opinions toward any given performance?

I love watching Brian Gillis or Bill Malone perform. I love Copperfield when the camera comes in close and he does sleight of hand but I don't love his stage stuff nearly as much.
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]On Jun 11, 2017, MeetMagicMike wrote:
Quote:
Coin and cards are often understood and presented as demonstrations of skill. If a performer did an impressive multiplying balls routine and then set the balls on a table and they continued to multiply this would take away from the routine in that context.

The whole point of magic is to create a moment of unexplainable astonishment, not provide a "demonstration of skill", which is more like juggling. Many of our our past masers, like Dai Vernon and John Ramsay, went to great lengths to hide their skill. John Carney, a current master, carries on this tradition. Most of what he does is pure sleight of hand, but he disguises his skill and the moment becomes even more magical. I love watching card mechanics like Richard Turner and Steve Forte demonstrate their skill, but they don't create magical moments for me. For the audience, the reaction is more "I wouldn't want to play cards with that guy", than a truly magical experience. By the way, the climax to a billiard ball routine you describe would elevate that trick to a moment of pure astonishment...
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Merenkov,

Quote:
The whole point of magic is to create a moment of unexplainable astonishment, not provide a "demonstration of skill"


We, unfortunately perhaps, use the same word for both types of performance. When David Roth or Ricky Jay perform I see plenty of wonder. The audience understands that what they do takes hours of practice. When I see Gazzo do the cups and balls I never suspected he was dematerializing anything and I don't think that is the effect he is going for. Everyone knows that he is skilled and that does not detract from the effect. If he used a table thick enough to hold a watermelon THAT would detract from the effect even if he got a great visual appearance out of it.

Penn and Teller and Mac King have the biggest magic shows in Las Vegas and their skill is no secret to the audience. The audience knows they are being bamboozled not that they are seeing magical powers.
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videoman
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Astonishment or skill, it's a matter of personal preference, both for the performer and the audience members. They both can be extremely entertaining and I think it's worth noting that audiences can be completely astonished by feats of pure skill. It could even be argued that skill can be more astonishing simply due to the fact that people can relate to it vs. something which is unexplainable.

But if each are done at the absolute highest level it all comes down to each spectators personal preference IMO.
This is kind of like arguing if juggling is better entertainment than magic. There is no definitive answer because it's subjective.
MikeLiu
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Pure eye candy Smile

and willie is a nice guy and good friend too Smile
hinter_e_p
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On May 28, 2017, JonathanW wrote:
I made a joke video about this, if anyone wants to see it. https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.wooten......96353204 It's public so those of you who don't have facebook can watch it Smile


Nice one, always nice to see that some magicians still have a sense of humour Smile
JonathanW
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On Jun 12, 2017, hinter_e_p wrote:
Quote:
On May 28, 2017, JonathanW wrote:
I made a joke video about this, if anyone wants to see it. https://www.facebook.com/jonathan.wooten......96353204 It's public so those of you who don't have facebook can watch it Smile


Nice one, always nice to see that some magicians still have a sense of humour Smile


Thanks Smile I have had so many mixed responses to this video. I have had people asking for a reveal of it hahaha. I also have had others mad it was a joke reveal and some thinking it was a real reveal((they didn't watch the video)) they were commenting or messaging saying that's not your routine! lol
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I saw it and it baffled me completely...
Still I'm not sure if I like it or not...
I mean, it is a great effect, super clean, fast, visual!
BUT
I think Will "overdid" it a bit.
During the coin matrix it still looked like some neat sleight of hand.
But then he did the same thing without cover, and hands-off the table (look mom, no hands!!)
That's the moment every magician watching got the idea that a very clever gimmick is used (in this case a nicely produced cover table)
But even more.
For most of the audience members and the people at home, the same idea comes up... It must have been the table...

Of course this DOES IN NO WAY CHANGE the way the effect looked! YES; it was absolutely amazing!!

All I say is that for most effects there should be a nice balance in people's heads between different questions, like:
"how did he do it?"
"Did he hide them in his hands?"
"Was he doing it so fast I could'nt see? it was only covered for half a second"
"These were normal coins right?"
"Maybe magnets?"


But because Will did this perfect performance, nearly all the questions are eliminatd...
No cover at all, not even "a fake misleading" cover
No possibility to hide them in the hands since he didn't touch them while "jumping"

So for the audience the only possibility left is, HE didn't do any sleight of hand, the table did the work (or even the coins...)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this might even take away some of the magic if people directly point at the table and say "ha, that's how he did it!"

I think it's a wondeful gimmick (which I don't know 100% how it works) and I would love to have one!!
But there are other techniques of using this, that don't give away so much...

Had he covered his actions only a little, he would even have fooled more magicians who believe in strong sleight of hand.
I absolutely love the use of gimmicks, but gimmicks should not be detected as such.

But this might be the same discussion as the one about "magic apps". As soon as they look like a special App, people don't believe anything, even if you pull an elephant out of your phone, people will say "it's that app, do it with my phone then!"
Joshua Barrett
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Quote:
On Jun 11, 2017, MeetMagicMike wrote:
I for one didn't say the table did all the work. And why the hostility toward anyone who didn't love this routine? (ie armchair quarterback comment). Isn't it possible that some people have differing opinions toward any given performance?

I love watching Brian Gillis or Bill Malone perform. I love Copperfield when the camera comes in close and he does sleight of hand but I don't love his stage stuff nearly as much.


I for one did not mention you. Perhaps taking your own advice would be in order, looking of the amount of responses you have made to others opinions, or is it only you that is allowed to have a contrary opinion?
MeetMagicMike
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Joshua Barrett wrote:

Quote:
I for one did not mention you. Perhaps taking your own advice would be in order, looking of the amount of responses you have made to others opinions, or is it only you that is allowed to have a contrary opinion?


It's hard to know exactly who you were referring in your first post because didn't quote anyone.

I don't have any problem with people stating their opinions and responding to comments so what is this about me not taking my own advice? I objected to comments like "armchair quarterback" and other ad hoc assertions about people who have any critique of this performance.

Each of my posts is in answer to a particular point made. I always quote the thing I am responding to and I always try to make my point clear and concise.
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SimonCard
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I agree with Mike. Labeling people of different opinions is the fastest to terminate an intellectual discussion.
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In all honesty, I have scanned through this thread and am simply amazed and puzzled by the moronic issue of "Mechanics". Does anyone complain when a magician dances around an apparatus and places a girl inside only to vanish and appear in the back of the theater?Did anyone scream "apparatus" or "thread" when Blackstone floated his bulb? Do you really think the Zig Zag is plain box that was picked up at the local furniture store?
Get a life! This is magic. Anyway it can leave the viewer scratching his/her head has accomplished the task. This was great magic, plain and simple. If you must obsess with the way it was done, you are just that...."simple".

Arthur
MeetMagicMike
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I wrote:

Quote:
I don't have any problem with people stating their opinions and responding to comments... I objected to comments like "armchair quarterback" and other ad hoc assertions about people who have any critique of this performance.



SimonCard wrote:

Quote:
labeling people of different opinions is the fastest way to terminate an intellectual discussion.


And the very next post by Martello contained these words:

Quote:
..moronic...Get a life!... you are...."simple".




:)
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natmagic
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Lets see what he does next.
Dave the Knave
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On Jun 15, 2017, natmagic wrote:
Lets see what he does next.

It's going to be an Ambitious Card routine using the new $15,000.00 "Hi-Teck Deck," soon to be available from SandMines.
martonikus
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I agree that the audience must conclude the effect has something to do with the table because it is "too perfect" to be anything else.

However, I totally don't agree that this matters!

I also don't think "exposure" is really harmful to magic.

Magic is the means, not the end. It is a medium in which to create humor with jokes or gags, or in which to communicate fantasies and emotions.

For me what matters most, by far, is performance. For me, Will's performance was good, but not quite great. He could have been more expressive and more clear about selling the story behind the illusion.

And the illusion was terrific.

I do agree that a crappy and unbelievable illusion is a huge drag on the impact of any performance.

But a convincing illusion supports a great performance EVEN IF THE AUDIENCE KNOWS THE SECRET.

That's my take.
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