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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » SansMinds Magic » » Will Tsai - AGT. Mind=Blown (119 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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JeremyTan
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Arent we all looking to make everything look like "Real Magic"? That's what it looks like to me! The audiences and the judges!
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Jeremy Tan

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blurrylines
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Quote:
On May 29, 2017, mh1001 wrote:

Even if you don't know exactly the method, if you understand the concept or idea, then, you're not fooled. If you understand I'm using sleight of hand, you're not fooled, even if you don't know which techniques I'm using.



I'm not sure I agree with this. Many laymen randomly blurt out "he did that with sleight of hand" as a catch all phrase. It usually means they were fooled.

I can't count the times I've heard the laymen explanation of "sleight of hand" when I performed a self-working effect. I also snicker when accused of using a marked deck when no marked deck is in play. "You did something" or "trick cards" are also common, yet meaningless laymen phrases. The vast majority of the time, if any of those proclamations are uttered it means they were fooled. They can usually be translated as, "You fooled me."

Although it depends on how you define "fooled". It can be loosely defined as, "they have no clue what happened". A prime example of it is on display when people say, "The table did something". Smile
Slackerking
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It's funny to watch all the negativity on here about the methods and the personality.

It was beautiful. The crowd reaction said it all. All the negativity and handwringing and petty jealousy, it's why a lot of folks including a trio of constant posters here accomplish little to nothing while someone like Will Tsai creates a moment of profound beauty. I could give two ****s how it was accomplished. It was astounding and beautiful to watch and the fact that he didn't have a ridiculously calculated persona made it that much sweeter.
PRINCE
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On May 29, 2017, Slackerking wrote:
It's funny to watch all the negativity on here about the methods and the personality.

It was beautiful. The crowd reaction said it all. All the negativity and handwringing and petty jealousy, it's why a lot of folks including a trio of constant posters here accomplish little to nothing while someone like Will Tsai creates a moment of profound beauty. I could give two ****s how it was accomplished. It was astounding and beautiful to watch and the fact that he didn't have a ridiculously calculated persona made it that much sweeter.


Well said and completely agree.
mh1001
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Blurrylines,

Here's the trouble. From your perspective, you think they were fooled, because you know they are uncorrect. But from their perspective, they "know" how you did it. For them, it's not magic.

In another thread, I've explained that once, I did the turnover pass to a colleague, at work, and he asked if I can do it again, as he thinks he understands how it's done. And I thought I did it perfectly right, because I know that I always (or almost) do this sleight perfectly right. I said that if I reveal the method, he must tell me exactly what he saw. And he admitted it was very different from what he imagined.

A good comrade, who sometimes posts on the Café, told me in PM that while he was doing the muscle pass, some people said he must have magnets under his skin, and they seem to truly believe it. Maybe these guys are actually being stupid, but whatever, the effect wasn't magical to them.

For me, this kind of situation is really bothersome. So, I try to do everything I can in order to avoid people thinking they understand the working of my effects.
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It seems to me that Will thought about his environment, and the medium that he was working with, he would have also known that there would be magicians and the like re playing the video etc. With that in mind he created a piece that looked magical, with subtleties and convincers hopefully creating the illusion? of advanced sleight of hand/magic. I think that he did a great job.

Could some of the folks who have issues with this performance please provide some links of yourselves demonstrating some of your work so We can see how you tackle the same sort of constraints as from my perspective footage speaks louder than words and I would be very grateful to see how your presentations work as trying to get my head around what magic is about has been driving me mad for the last twenty years.

I look forward to seeing what you guys deliver and how your philosophy translates through your work, many thanks

Mike
MeetMagicMike
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Guys, I understand that Will Tsai performed a beautiful set. I work restaurants and make families ooh and ah but I don't have a set that would work on AGT.

I'm discussing one particular part of Tsai's performance. He let the audience see the coins moving around on their own. I think that took him out of the equation as far as sleight of hand. Many of you are ok with that perhaps because you don't think the sleight of hand explanation is what we should be going for. I do.

This is a difference of opinion or taste. Not an attack on Will Tsai. I love discussion and find them valuable. Give your arguments and make them consise. Address the issues brought up. If you just love the performance feel free to say that.
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mike herbert
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Magic Mike

I guess a question to you could be could be, what does sleight of hand look like?
I have witnessed lay people marvel at a magicians sleight of hand when they were in fact using a Svengali deck. To me sleight of hand is a secret thing that accomplishes potential impossibilities. often times the audience perceive something different to what they really see. It all comes down to presentation.

Mike,,
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Quote:
On May 29, 2017, mike herbert wrote:
It seems to me that Will thought about his environment, and the medium that he was working with, he would have also known that there would be magicians and the like re playing the video etc. With that in mind he created a piece that looked magical, with subtleties and convincers hopefully creating the illusion? of advanced sleight of hand/magic. I think that he did a great job.

Could some of the folks who have issues with this performance please provide some links of yourselves demonstrating some of your work so We can see how you tackle the same sort of constraints as from my perspective footage speaks louder than words and I would be very grateful to see how your presentations work as trying to get my head around what magic is about has been driving me mad for the last twenty years.

I look forward to seeing what you guys deliver and how your philosophy translates through your work, many thanks

Mike


Hi Mike, the issue is not one of comparison. There's really not much magic if all you have is a prop that does all the work. Take a look at Del Rey who was so ahead of the times. He combined great sleight of hand with his props and what he did was magic. Tony Slydini was the Master of pure magic. Omar Pasha was incredible. Now when comes to matrix, David Roth, Neighbors, Gallo, Dean Dill, Gertner and so many more that make it look like real magic. The audience was entertained by Will's performance but doubt they were fooled. Props don't make you a magician, only enhance the effect and skills.

Best

Steve
"The New York Papers," Mark Twain once said,"have long known that no large question is ever really settled until I have been consulted; it is the way they feel about it, and they show it by always sending to me when they get uneasy. "
MeetMagicMike
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Mike herbert wrote:

Quote:
Magic Mike
I have witnessed lay people marvel at a magician's sleight of hand when they were in fact using a Svengali deck. To me sleight of hand is a secret thing that accomplishes potential impossibilities. often times the audience perceive something different to what they really see. It all comes down to presentation.


Very good point. Another example would be the use of trick coins. But the distinction is that they audience still credits the magician with sleight of hand (ie skill).

In Will Tsai's performance, I have no problem with the initial matrix routine. It's ok with me if there is a secret device involved (as a magician I'd be more impressed with sleight of hand but that's not relevant here, surprisingly). It's the part where he takes his hands away and the coins move on their own. The audience now knows it's either real magic or a trick table. They probably don't know how the table works (I don't) so in that respect you can say we are fooled. For me, I would rather steer them away from that explanation.
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mh1001
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Mike herbert, what we see with Will's performance is that coins seem to be teleporting at his command. It's instantaneous, there's no cover and happens in a flash : people feel that it's a real teleportation. Sleight of hand can't accomplish this. I don't think presentation, misdirection or skill can change anything at this point. I do not believe people will feel the same when seeing a coin matrix using sleight of hand techniques.
ori
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WOW! I enjoyed the performance very much and thought Will Tsai brings to the stage a very open genuine personality. The music and timing are so great that the silence at the end emphasizes the emotional impact on the audience.
As a magician I was completely fooled and I am very thankful for it. It has been a while since that feeling was so sharp.
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I think the people who expressed different opinions and concerns are genuinely speaking what they think. There is no need to label others with different opinions with 'being jealous' or anything. As an audience, this is truly an amazing and visual piece; but as an magician, I don't think we should stop there, discussing why it's good or why it should be concerned can advance the art.
I kindda agree with meetmagicmike, the first part where the transportation occurs under the cards, though also depending on the gimmick and no sleights, looks more magical. The open transportation at his finger snapping finger makes me think the whole table is a tablet kindda thing. Just my perspective, and I admit it's very hard for me to see it as if I knew nothing about magic.
Merenkov
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I’m puzzled by comments like, “The audience was entertained…but I doubt they were fooled.” I’ve been playing around with Matrix routines for 35 years, and I was completely fooled. The first time I saw Dean Dill perform his Explosion routine, the appearance of the final coins looked like trick photography to me. Perhaps Will has a tricky table, but is it mechanical or some type of digital surface? If mechanical, it’s an unfathomable marvel to me. If it’s digital, then he has to ditch those clearly physical coins in some fashion that is also unfathomable to me. Watch the video again, and look at the stunned faces of the judges and audience members. They were clearly, unambiguously, fooled…and entertained.
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IMO this performance is brilliant he shocked me with unspected outcome. I don't want know anything about the secret. I love that I was fooled badly. Many my friends asked my opinion about the secre an how this is possible. I refused tothing just a possible solution. I look for the next his perfomance. Congratulations Will Tsai.
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Quote:
On May 29, 2017, Slackerking wrote:
It's funny to watch all the negativity on here about the methods and the personality.

It was beautiful. The crowd reaction said it all. All the negativity and handwringing and petty jealousy, it's why a lot of folks including a trio of constant posters here accomplish little to nothing while someone like Will Tsai creates a moment of profound beauty. I could give two ****s how it was accomplished. It was astounding and beautiful to watch and the fact that he didn't have a ridiculously calculated persona made it that much sweeter.


Truth!


Quote:
On May 29, 2017, mh1001 wrote:
Blurrylines,

Here's the trouble. From your perspective, you think they were fooled, because you know they are uncorrect. But from their perspective, they "know" how you did it. For them, it's not magic.


They were fooled from their perspective as well. It's "magic" to them, and they don't know how it was done. The majority of the time when you ask them, "What do you mean, sleight of hand?". They say something akin to, "You had to do something funny with the cards, coins, whatever. I don't know what you did and I didn't see anything, but it had to be that." Why did it *have* to be that? Because they don't truly believe you can defy the laws of physics. The phrase "I don't know what you did, I didn't see anything" is key. Your presentation, misdirection, etc caused them to see "magic" in their minds. You showed them something impossible, that their mind can't comprehend, but they know it's not by defying the laws of physics. The only thing that can remotely fall into the category of magic you are referring to are properly presented mentalism and/or influence performances.

No one actually thinks David Copperfield flies across stage; and unless a spectator is under 10 years old, they don't really think he has super powers. You can give them a moment of something that seems impossible (such as Wil did), but they never believe it's magic in the sense that they believe you did something that defies the laws of physics. I suspect they also don't *truly* believe your friend has magnets in his skin. It's similar to the "you used sleight of hand" phrase. In other words, "That looks impossible, but I know you're not a supernatural being". Adults will almost never *seriously* come to that conclusion, even if it's said in jest. Anyway, you can PM me if you want to discuss further. I don't want to derail main thread which is about Wil's amazing performance. Good for him! He did a great job. I am eager to see what's next!
mh1001
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Blurrylines,

I can't agree with you here. There's a big difference between "I have no idea what you did" and "I know it's sleight of hand but not exactly what". And the difference in reaction also is visible. When I did my first ACRs, sometimes, at some point, people challenge me this way "can I look at your cards?" "Ok, look at this card, which I now put in the middle" and as he/she gives it back to me, I was asked "now make it happen". I knew at that moment that this person was thinking I was doing something fishy with my hands, yet they didn't see anything, as they admitted. The worst thing was that I was unable to do the effect again, even though I tried "hmm I don't remember, what was your card ? ... well found it, ok it's really that one you want to see it rise to the top ?" and then I did it, success ? Yes, but... that person told me "no, you did the same thing as you did before. Look... I want to be the one who puts the card in the middle of the deck, and once it's inside, I don't want you to touch it. You pick the top one immediately, and make it happen". What do you think I should have done ? At this point, too late. Once they come to understand the main idea, the impact is greatly diminished. But this was already and exactly what I said in my earlier post. There was someone who "knew" how my turnover pass was done, yet he was wrong. If you believe this guy was fooled, this guy was thinking he got me. And he wasn't impressed. I've experienced it many times. Every time people "understood" one possible way which the effect could be done, they were much less impressed compared to people who admitted having no clue at all and said I was a sorcerer or something like this.

If someone thinks "That looks impossible, but I know you're not a supernatural being" it's still much more impactful than saying "I know you have good fingers, but I didn't see your move". Obviously, I never said people believe in magic. Most of the time, people don't, and most of the time, even if they enjoy the act, they like to think about how it's done.

Here's the difference between a miracle and a so-so trick. It is : the more people think about it, the more they become crazy - versus - they think about some possibilities which could have produced this outcome but they are unsure about which the magician has used right now.

Copperfield's flying across the room was "magical" in that the spectators were allowed to "dream" but it's obvious many of them would think "could be wires". As soon as they think such an effect could be done using one particular method, whether it's right or not, it's not magical (unless you define magical as "what Ronaldo does with a ball is like magic"). Regardless, they were being entertained. Perhaps to the point they don't want to think too much about the secret, as they won't be able to fully appreciate the show.

There are some few effects for which I had and still have absolutely no idea how it's done, not even the smallest hypothesis, and the more I think about it and the crazier I become. These are from : Tommy Wonder (his ring, watch and wallet effect) and Tom Mullica (his cigarette's act). And these are the kind which, I would guess, would fool everyone, without exception.
Magic Life
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This is ****ing awesome..
This is where real magic comes.
One minute act... Killed the whole expectation system, this is what the visual magic is called.

Magic
MazingMandy
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So when Issy Simpson performs an act full of personality using a light/heavy box everyone is "bah, anyone with one of those special boxes can do that act" Yes when Will Tsai does a pretty boring act with a special magic table no-one seems to think the same?
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On May 30, 2017, MazingMandy wrote:
So when Issy Simpson performs an act full of personality using a light/heavy box everyone is "bah, anyone with one of those special boxes can do that act" Yes when Will Tsai does a pretty boring act with a special magic table no-one seems to think the same?


I know it's not fair

But it's because she is an 8 year old [?] girl

So the idea she has any skill is unbelievable

So the story [angle] is either she is a genius... or - look it was just the effect doing all the work... no wonder even a child can do it

And there is no angle [for the media] in the genius story - as they will look foolish when others report on how she did it...

In fact there is never any 'genius' angle for magic/tricks - both in that it's a non-story and you haven't got anything to add to the story

It didn't help that her performance was so big

As soon as anything goes viral - it's going to be revealed

The only thing that can be done... is the magic circle bans any member that goes on TV... or performs to more than 5 people

So both will be revealed - but the story is bigger and makes the headlines when it's a young child...
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