Hey everyone,

I'm very new to magic. I know you can self-learn (RRCM, Tarbell, etc.), but I see tons of people that say that they trained under (insert name here).

A) Is training under someone almost considered a pre-requisite to become more accomplished/revered in the magic community?
B) When do you start training under someone? (i.e. should you find someone to work with you asap or should you be building foundations in magic first?)
C) How exactly do you approach someone when that time comes?

Thanks!

I'll re-post some advice I gave another Café member some time ago who was asking the the same question as I think it applies to your questions about mentors.

First we need to define what makes a good mentor and in my opinion the elements of a good Mentor are they’re accessible. They take time. They lead by example. They communicate. They are respected by others, and they show respect. You also want to learn and grow by facing your flaws and ignorance of some of the worldly perspectives that surround you, So, try to find a mentor who will challenge your thinking and show you there might be a different way to approach a problem, or even an additional approach you never knew existed.

So how do you find a Mentor like this?

For some people, a formal process of seeking out a mentor is the best way to go, but by my own observations about mentor relationships is that the best ones seem to grow organically, rather than being an arranged marriage.

If you do go out and seek a mentor Don’t ask for the person to “be your mentor” right off the bat. That’s a big ask. Far too big for the first meeting.
Rather, ask for an initial meeting — something informal, over coffee maybe. Keep it less than an hour.

Come with questions that you’re prepared to ask, but let the conversation flow relationally. (Note: the formality really depends on the potential mentor’s communication style — something you should be aware of before the initial meeting.) When in doubt about when to make the ask, just go for it. (That’s what I do, and it usually works.)

After the meeting its now time to take stock on how things went after the meeting, do you want to spend more time with this person?

Did she/he begin the meeting by encouraging you or telling you what to do? Did she/he ask questions, or wait to provide answers?
Did you leave the meeting feeling better about yourself? Was a connection made? If not, feel free to let the relationship go and seek out someone else, instead.
You don’t have time to waste on a self-centered tyrants.

If the person is someone you do want to see again It’s appropriate to follow up immediately, thanking your prospective mentor for his/her time.
A good way to do this is via email or other form of passive communication, so that you don’t appear overbearing or waste the person’s time.
This is also a good time to mention that you’d like to do it again. If he/she reciprocates, offer to get something on the calendar. (You may need to suggest a time.)

Make sure that it feels relaxed and not contrived. You’re still vetting each other at this point.

What do we do now? We let the relationship evolve organically.

We sometimes place too high of expectations on mentoring. We want to give it a name, because it gives us a sense of status and importance. But really it’s just a relationship. Mentoring is organic. It’s healthy to let it grow like any other relationship — over time and based on mutual respect and trust. Don’t force it. That will kill a potential mentoring relationship faster than anything. Give it time; it needs to grow.

Ok so we've found a mentor now what? The Answer? Gaining and maintaining the relationship.

I was recently speaking with a friend who’s mentored a number of young men over the years. He said the saddest part about what he does is that a lot of guys check out whenever he challenges them.

It will happen. You’ll get to a point where your mentor will feel comfortable enough to call you out. And what you do next is crucial to your growth.

Remember: this is what you signed up for. Don’t wimp out when it gets tough; this is where the really good stuff happens.

The next thing is don’t wait for the mentor to initiate. Learn how to manage up. Persevere. Ask for more of your mentor without demanding it.
This doesn’t bother him (at least, it shouldn’t). It honors him. It shouldn’t be a big deal to ask this person to coffee or lunch, outside of your normal meeting time. If a mentor can’t be a friend, then he’s probably can't be a mentor. Finding ways to solidify the bond you’ve created will only strengthen the Mentor relationship.

Feedback can be hard, but it’s good. As your relationship with your mentor progresses, this will be the #1 way you grow. It will be a highlight for the both of you. While asking for feedback may initially feel weird, eventually it will become almost second-nature. You will find yourself thirsting for those words you used to fear.Similarly, a good mentor will treat these times with great care and sensitivity.

Another thing is also not falling for the view that being mentored is more passive than active. A mentor/mentee relationship should never just be a one-way affair. Try to make it useful for your mentor by asking what he or she might like in return. Many will say that giving of their time is a way to give back and help to shape someone’s future. But never assume. It’s a relationship, so there must be something you can do in return to make the union more fruitful and a positive for the both of you.

The last and final thing is commitment. You can’t be mentored in a summer. That’s an internship. Mentoring takes real time and real work.
In order for it to be a real mentorship, you have to commit to the relationship. Come hell or high water, you’re going to make it work.
Then, you will begin to understand what it means to be a student, a disciple or protege.

Good Luck

Magically

Aus

Thanks, Aus, for your really well written guide to finding and "courting" (for lack of a better word) a mentor. You actually brought up a TON of points I never even thought about. How will I know when to look for a mentor? Is it another type of thing that will just organically happen as I meet people in the community, or is it something I should be actively doing from the get-go?

Not much to add to Aus' thoughts except in support. I have mentored many persons over the past many decades and have mostly been disappointed --
the magician aspiree is not willing to "do the work" necessary to be successful. Much of the problem stems from a lack of respect:

respect for magic as an at form. Respect for a transitional learning process. Respect for themselves.
I don't care if they respect me so much -- but they should respect my time.

Some of that is how one interacts with people in general, including on the internet. On a lower mentoring level I get many requests for effects or solutions or scripting ideas.
Occasionally people purchase something I have created, but mostly I gift it away -- conditionally. All I ask is feedback about the use of the effect so that I can better help the next person.

Every wishing to "be mentored" willing agrees. To date, only 27% have met that commitment.

So, I would suggest that the desire to "be mentored" must be based on an actual desire to make and keep commitments with respect.

Performance magic can be viewed as a form of communication. You communicate something of who you are as well as your understanding of awe and wonder - then pretend at magic for entertainment or instruction.

Work on the first themes before aspiring to the second.

When is the right time to look for a mentor? In my opinion the right time is when you have defined your personal tastes for magic. If you don't know what that is yet then I would start buying books that offer wide exposure of magic in general terms. Books like Mark Wilson's Course in Magic or The Magic Book by Harry Lorayne offer a smorgasbord of what magic has on offer. Once you've picked and tasted whats on offer and have developed your own preferences you now have a focus that a mentor can sharpen and hone in your mentorship.

You should in my opinion consciously be sizing people up as you engage people in the magic community and using the perimeters that I outlined in my first post to assess the candidates. Not everyone will meet those requirements but that doesn't mean they can't fulfil other needs like magic friends, people to have jam sessions with etc.

Just be aware of the situations that surround you and when the moment strikes you'll be ready to jump at the opportunity.

Magically

Aus

Well Ricky, In the past 60 years, I have mentored a "few" aspiring magicians. I've never kept a count, but, I'm "guessing" several dozen. Of course, before I accepted that responsibility, I did a bit of thinking. Basically, I was concerned with how serious the "candidate" was.

The late Bob McAllister was in high school, when we met in the early '50s. (I was in the Navy.) Bob went on to several years, as the MC of "Kids are people, too", in a New York TV job. Then, he did another TV program in NYC. (I've forgotten the title! --it was 50 years ago!) Bob and I worked the Castle the same week, back in the '70s.

A young man of about 17, and I, met at Abbott's Get Together, about 1967. We became friends, and, I did a bit of mentoring. You may remember, the late Doug Henning.

About a dozen of those (then) young guys, are now full time pro's. Another half dozen are avid amateurs. A couple went their own way, and, were never heard from again. One that I know of, is struggling to find table hopping gigs in Florida. He decided to go his own way. He still owes me for props that I "sold" him!

The late Jeff Helding, listened and learned (!!!) He did a number of tours for Southern School Assemblies, and Dakota Assemblies, before he died of diabetic complications.

Jeff Bibik, Al Ulman ("Al the Only") Jody Baran, Andrew Martin and others, are doing well as full timers.

Although Aus, and I have had "differences of opinion", several times. I do think he gave you some good information, above. He tends to use technical terms a bit loosely, and, I've challenged him several times, in the past several years.

Since my dear friend, Dick Snavely, died, I no longer have any contacts in Raleigh. I believe the ring is at least reasonably active. I'm sure that you'll find a welcome there.

Thanks for the responses everyone!

I'm going to go to the IBM meeting next weekend and try to meet some folks, start up some conversation, and feel the group out. Maybe get some tips along the way!