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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts |
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On Jul 26, 2017, RickDangerous wrote: Yessir! I'm 100% switched over. Every routine I used for mnemonica can be done with the Redford stack. One huge selling point for switching is the ability to get into stack very quickly. While mnemonica was great, getting into stack required quite a few faro shuffles or a quadruple anti faro, which required you to begin in new deck order. With Redfords stack, you can get into mem stack with a shuffled borrowed deck, without Faro's, and without knowing the stack cold, and all done in the hands no table required. The Chinese shuffle makes this very easy. I am proficient with the faro so I'm not an anti faro kind of guy, but with some decks, even brand new bicycles from the store, they just will not faro because of the card stock quality nowadays. Redford stack is pure genius if you ask me. |
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sgtgrey Special user Austin, TX 839 Posts |
I'm actually on the opposite side of it - I've read the book (which is great, btw), but I wasn't convinced to change from Mnemonica to Redford stack (at least, not yet).
Most of the stack-dependent effects I was interested in (such as the Faro Effects and the title effect) were easily adapted to Mnemonica, and I have only little interest in the poker-, spelling-, or story-related effects. Since I have multiple methods to go FASDIU to Mnemonica, NDO to Mnemonica, Mnemonica to Stay Stack, Mnemonica Red/Black, etc. and I have worked with it so long and already have many effects and work I've learned that rely on Mnemonica, I am not easily swayed to change. Yes, I'd say Redford is easier to get into b/c of the type of shuffles involved, but not faster...I've timed myself doing both, and it's about the same time to get to Redford as it is Mnemonica, for me at least. It's easier to get to Red/Black or Stay Stack from Redford, but not materially so for my purposes. It's also not difficult to get into any stack FASDIU without faro shuffles, as I have multiple methods for accomplishing this with Mnemonica already, so the Chinese Shuffle was not new or special to me, personally. The biggest advantage of the Redford stack I saw was the ability to quickly get to Si Stebbins. This is the one that gives me pause, as there are some wonderful effects that can only be accomplished with the properties of the Si Stebbins stack, and in order for me to get to them from Mnemonica, I'd either need to restack as if from a shuffled deck in use, or go Mnemonica->NDO->Si Stebbins - either of which is much more arduous than Redford to Si Stebbins. However, this one major improvement would also require me to give up the Mnemonica-dependent ideas and knowledge I have, so I am reticent to make a change when I consider what I would lose and the work involved for that tradeoff (For me, it is beyond just memorizing the deck as I would also need to re-learn many other stack-specific properties of the Redford stack in order to use it as I do, such as quartet distance locations, re-adapting certain stack-specific effects, etc.) So in sum, I think regardless of whether you adopt the stack, the book is worth a read for any stack working (especially memorized deck!) magician. I also think the stack has many great features built-in and many great possibilities, but at least for now I did not find enough that I would use or find a material enough benefit for me to make the tradeoff of losing what I already have through Mnemonica. Perhaps I will be swayed over time, or after the addition of 2 more promised books, but for now I remain with Mnemonica. |
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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts |
Sgtgrey I've always enjoyed reading your posts man. PM'd you buddy.
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RickDangerous Special user I can't believe I made 974 Posts |
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On Jul 28, 2017, sgtgrey wrote: Couldn't agree more. Exactly my feelings. Thanks Sgtgrey
"Reality is what you can get away with."
Robert A. Wilson "Think for yourself and question authority." Timothy Leary |
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stickmondoo Veteran user 306 Posts |
Patrick's stack is clever and has lots of great ideas and the book is worth reading even if you don't perform Memorized Deck magic because it's filled with so much great information but I just don't see why anyone would memorise a stack you can't spread on the table or deal face up.
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stickmondoo Veteran user 306 Posts |
Having said that, I realise many have. The Hacker Stack and Ortiz to name but two. I like my stack random looking though.
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Bobby Forbes Inner circle virginia beach, VA. 1569 Posts |
You can spread the Redford stack face up on the table. Looks random. Also Si stebbins can be spread face up as well. How long are you laying your spread on the table? I don't even spread a legitimately shuffled deck of cards face up for more than a couple of seconds. Not many laymen will know what they are looking at. A few seconds is not enough time to spot a reasonably random looking stack in my opinion. Unless you invite them to study the spread, I don't see why they would...
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Claudio Inner circle Europe 1927 Posts |
There are effects though that do require a random looking stack. Here are a couple from the top of my head:
. some versions of The Princess Card Trick such as Aronson's "Histed Heisted" . Steve Ehlers's The Three-Card Location Although you don't spread the cards, you call them in stack order and any stack that's not random enough would jeopardise the effect. |
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stickmondoo Veteran user 306 Posts |
It's not the spreading so much. its the dealing face up. I just wouldn't feel comfortable. I know you can get around it by spread counting face down and so on. I just would rather have a completely random looking mem Deck. Just personal preference.
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lukkudlek New user 67 Posts |
Wow. I am definitely going to check out Redford. Thanks for the reviews.
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Patrick Redford Inner circle Michigan 1751 Posts |
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On Aug 29, 2017, stickmondoo wrote: I spread mine on the table and deal it face up often. There are a few videos doing exactly that online. It's never been an issue. It holds up to these kinds of conditions. I wouldn't hand it to someone to take home if they were going to go hunting within the stack without giving it a shuffle first, but that's because there's so much packed into it. |
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Steven Leung Inner circle found the Magic Rainbow after 1614 Posts |
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On Jun 26, 2017, Ben Blau wrote: Thanks Ben opinion, for me whom I wished to memorized Tamariz stack over a decade, I still on my way around 30-40 card at most. No matter I got those iphone programme help me trained my memory... or simply not enough chance to perform those trick that used enough. I will definitely spend some serious time into Redford stack, hopefully it can provide me more routines in my card magic arsenal.
Most memorable moment - with Maestro Juan Tamariz & Consuelo Lorgia in FISM Busan 2018.
"Being fooled by a trick doesn't always mean they are having a good time" - Homer Liwag https://hhpresents.com/ https://www.glitchstudiohk.com/ |
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Steven Leung Inner circle found the Magic Rainbow after 1614 Posts |
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On Jul 28, 2017, Bobby Forbes wrote: Great to know, since I am still waiting the book to arrive... just a comment I am not sure what Chinese shuffle means in the book, and being a chiness I assume that chinese shuffle = hindu shuffle should I say?
Most memorable moment - with Maestro Juan Tamariz & Consuelo Lorgia in FISM Busan 2018.
"Being fooled by a trick doesn't always mean they are having a good time" - Homer Liwag https://hhpresents.com/ https://www.glitchstudiohk.com/ |
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Doctor D Special user 563 Posts |
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On Oct 16, 2017, Steven Leung wrote: The Chinese shuffle has nothing to do with Hindu shuffling or being Asian; it's a method - not Patrick's and fully credited - of arranging a shuffled deck into Si Stebbins. Openly, in front of spectators. |
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MorrisCH Veteran user 393 Posts |
I vividly remember years ago I stumble upon a thread regarding "Your Dream stack"
This was the time when Tamariz's stack was just getting popular in the US the op asked what are people's opinions and ideas of perfect build-in features in their dream deck would have The general ideas are Poker Demo, Blackjack, Bridge, Hold'em can easily shuffle from NDO or vice versa or quickly reverting to different stack Spelling effects, 4 of kind production story tricks.etc Since most stack already have those features, it only comes down to how effectively can one stack fulfill these features after study Redford/memonica/Aronson, I believe we finally have such Dream stack it process all the possible gambling demo, so much quicker to shuffle from NDO in comparison to Tamariz's stack at least 4 possible way to transfer to different stack via overhand shuffle (include Si-Stebbins, Red/black, Stay Stack.etc) able to go into other people's effect by swapping few cards here and there (Pit Harting, John Bannon, Asi Wind just to name a few) and this just the first book Redford publish on stack(at least 2 more to come), I can't wait to find out more about the possibility of this stack. |
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Bad jelly New user 78 Posts |
This is Ph.D. level. I'd like to add an interesting point. However, as a relatively new Café user, I'm unsure if it's previously been discussed in any great detail.
There are lots of references to Si Stebbins which could be viewed as an important segue between the stacks discussed. When you reach Stebbins there are a few subtleties that can be employed to the stack which effectively take it into the 'Riverboat' or 'Harmony' condition. Depending on your love of cards etc, Interesting things can happen here. I'll elaborate further and site my source of knowledge if anyone is interested but apologies if it's been discussed before. My search was unfruitful. Cheers. |
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Rhu New user 22 Posts |
Good day all, my apologies if this question crosses any lines or if I have posted in the wrong place. I was wondering if there is anyway to find and learn the Redford stack without having a copy of Temporarily out of Order. I am new (relatively) to the Café and magic in general (only 8 months in) and I would like to say that I am not suggesting any kind of pirating or theft in anyway, only asking if there is any public domain resource. It's just that the book is out of stock everywhere, and I live in a tiny town in Mexico so postage even if I could find it would automatically double the cost of the work, I realize also that the book contains a lot more than just the stack and the methods to get in and out of it, but I've never done any Memdeck work and for now I would just like to concentrate on the memorisation aspect and confidence moving into and out of stack without doing any effects that are necessarily dependent on the stack in question. If I have crossed any lines by asking this I really do apologise. Thankyou in advance for any advice you can give me.
R |
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JBSmith1978 Veteran user NY 389 Posts |
For starters there is a PDF Memory Arts Redford edition available for purchase.
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Rhu New user 22 Posts |
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On Sep 29, 2018, JBSmith1978 wrote: I hadn't seen this edition, just the Aronson and Tamariz one! Thankyou very much. You said "for starters" are there any other electronic resources available? I read back my post and I think I should clarify that when I said I was looking for "public domain" I'm not looking for freebies! I hope that wasn't misunderstood. Thanks again R |
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JBSmith1978 Veteran user NY 389 Posts |
As far as I know the only other source was an advance that George sent to the folk that (pre?)ordered.
My advice is to contact George directly. Its possible he still has a few copies available. Not having his book will greatly diminish the utility of his stack. |
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