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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Pope Francis recent statement on Labor Unions (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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landmark
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This is an extraordinary statement by the spiritual leader of over a billion people. I wonder how much news coverage it got here. Why was it not more widely reported? I can guess. I only happened to stumble across it.

"The capitalism of our time does not understand the value of the trade union, because it has forgotten the social nature of the economy, of the business. This is one of the greatest sins. Market economy: no. Let us say, social market economy, as St. John Paul II taught: social market economy.

The economy has forgotten the social nature that it has as a vocation, the social nature of business, of life, of bonds and pacts. But perhaps our society does not understand the union also because it does not fight enough in terms of the “not yet rights”: of the existential peripheries, among those rejected from work. Let us think of the 40 % of young people under 25, who do not have work. Here, in Italy. And you must fight there! These are existential peripheries. It does not fight for the immigrants, for the poor, who are below the city walls; or rather it does not understand simply because at times – and it happens in every family – corruption has entered the heart of some unionists. Do not let yourselves be obstructed by this.

I know that you have been committed for some time, working in the right directions, especially with migrants, the young and women. And what I am about to say may seem obvious, but in the world of work women are still in second class. You might say, “No, but there is that businesswoman, that other one…”; yes, but if women earn less, are more easily exploited… do something."

More here: http://press.vatican.va/content/salastam......28a.html
RNK
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My thoughts are that a spiritual leader should stay out of politics.

Crazy how the article states "Holy Father Francis". First, no human is Holy. We don't become Holy until we die.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, RNK wrote:
My thoughts are that a spiritual leader should stay out of politics.


Until he says something you agree with.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, RNK wrote:
We don't become Holy until we die.


How do you know this? And what exactly do you mean by "Holy"?

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
landmark
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Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, RNK wrote:
My thoughts are that a spiritual leader should stay out of politics.

Crazy how the article states "Holy Father Francis". First, no human is Holy. We don't become Holy until we die.


FYI: it's not just"an article." It's a press release from The Vatican. Regardless of whether you agree with the Pope's sentiments, I would think it's worth front page news coverage when the spiritual leader of over a billion people says something like this.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Thanks for the link, landmark. It's a powerful statement, well worth reading in full.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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We find no harm in him.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Also the Figueroa article in the June 2017 La Civilta Cattolica (available online in English)

https://laciviltacattolica.com/june-2017......umenism/

Interesting read.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
tommy
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Everything belongs to God, my boy. Therefore, then, the motto of Gods rep is, own nothing and control everything. In God, We Trust, eh?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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rockwall
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Maybe Pope Francis is for Trade Unions because he hasn't come to the realization, like Landmark, that it is inherently evil to hire someone for a wage.
landmark
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My view is not that it is inherently evil to hire someone for a wage; my view is that an economic system that depends on a class of owners and a class of wage earners is fundamentally flawed.

But no matter; it is not my particular view that is being discussed, but the Pope's, and why his views were not more widely reported.

If you haven't had a chance to read the entire speech, it's a very interesting insight into his worldview. For those who think he should talk only of spiritual matters, not political matters, he makes it very clear that for him it is a spiritual matter: "The capitalism of our time does not understand the value of the trade union, because it has forgotten the social nature of the economy, of the business. This is one of the greatest sins." In this context, the words "greatest sins" is a theological statement, not some random comment about his preferences.
tommy
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Since the communists are atheists then why should they care what the Pope says?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Dannydoyle
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If or until churches want to start paying taxes stay out of politics in America at least.

Landmark what happened to that wall between the two that is SO IMPORTANT during issues you disagree with?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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What wall? Francis is making a public statement about values. It's not like he's trying to influence an election or anything crazy like that.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
landmark
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Quote:
If or until churches want to start paying taxes stay out of politics in America at least.

Landmark what happened to that wall between the two that is SO IMPORTANT during issues you disagree with?


? I don't think governments should be promoting particular religions or paying for them. What religious leaders wish to say, however, is their business.

Do you think the Church should be allowed to make statements against the abortion laws of the land? I do. Should they be allowed to contribute money to political candidates? Not while they are getting tax breaks.
tommy
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Do you think neo Communists are as evil as neo Nazi’s? I do. Do you think the Pope lives in a morally confused world? I do.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
R.S.
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On Jul 14, 2017, tommy wrote:
Since the communists are atheists then why should they care what the Pope says?


Communism and atheism are apples and oranges. One is a political/economical ideology and the other is a stance on one particular claim (a claim which has nothing at all to do with politics or economics). In fact, there were/are indeed Christian communists.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
Dannydoyle
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On Jul 14, 2017, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
What wall? Francis is making a public statement about values. It's not like he's trying to influence an election or anything crazy like that.


Bull. And you know it.

As I said I refer to America in my statement and the whole church and state thing people cry about when they disagree with something and forget when they agree.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Dannydoyle
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On Jul 14, 2017, landmark wrote:
Quote:
If or until churches want to start paying taxes stay out of politics in America at least.

Landmark what happened to that wall between the two that is SO IMPORTANT during issues you disagree with?


? I don't think governments should be promoting particular religions or paying for them. What religious leaders wish to say, however, is their business.

Do you think the Church should be allowed to make statements against the abortion laws of the land? I do. Should they be allowed to contribute money to political candidates? Not while they are getting tax breaks.


So it is a one way wall? Sure no problems with that working at all right? For the guy who sees corruption possible anywhere it is a bit of a hypocritical stance.

Once he says something you disagree with you will cry about the need to separationof church and state all I ask for is consistency and usually you give it.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Did you read my response carefully? I specifically mentioned something that I disagree with--overturning abortion laws--and specifically said the Church should have the right to speak out on its position. I'm being very consistent.

But now test your own consistency--should the Church be allowed to speak out against abortion? What about unions?

I don't see that you can say yes to one and no to the other, and claim consistency.
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