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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Pope Francis recent statement on Labor Unions (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Abortion is a strange case. It is considered murder by some so it directly is against a commandment.

Pick another conservative cause. War. Should they speak out against it? No. Unions? No. Child prostitution? They should speak out.

In general they should be speaking out and paying taxes.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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Why philosophise, when it is only the action that really matters.

If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Abortion is a strange case. It is considered murder by some so it directly is against a commandment.

Pick another conservative cause. War. Should they speak out against it? No. Unions? No. Child prostitution? They should speak out.

In general they should be speaking out and paying taxes.


That seems a very inconsistent position, tilted to issues that concern you. But the Pope is saying, no, here's an issue that is being ignored that is "one of the greatest sins." Hard to argue that he doesn't think it is a theological matter like abortion if it is one of the greatest sins.

I have to say though that I'm surprised you think the Pope should not speak out against war. I'm not up on Catholic religious teachings, but it certainly seems that a lot of the wars in the world at present don't fall under its Just War doctrine. If the Pope thought they were not Just, wouldn't it be his duty to say so? Or, on the other hand, to say so if he thought a war was Just? I recall a number of high profile US Cardinals publicly backing the Vietnam War in the 60s.

Anyway, these questions are clearly difficult as to where to draw the line. But I do think it's awfully odd that I have seen so little coverage of this, no matter what one's position is.

Which is not to say that I--or Catholics--have to agree with the Pope. But I don't see how political matters can be separated neatly from theological matters. There's too much of a grey area.
Magnus Eisengrim
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More to the point, why would matters of faith be separate from matters of living? Surely, "how should I live my life" is one of the most important questions.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
NYCTwister
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On Jul 15, 2017, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
More to the point, why would matters of faith be separate from matters of living? Surely, "how should I live my life" is one of the most important questions.


Because faith isn't required to live.
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
tommy
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On his way back from the Victory Day Parade in Moscow, the Cuban leader Raul Castro stopped off in Rome to thank Pope Francis for his role in Cuba's rapprochement with the United States. "If the Pope continues this way," Castro said afterwards, "I will go back to praying and go back to the church - I am not joking."

The Pope comes from Argentina and he clearly thinks he is Eva Peron.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEMUsC8ppU0
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 15, 2017, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Abortion is a strange case. It is considered murder by some so it directly is against a commandment.

Pick another conservative cause. War. Should they speak out against it? No. Unions? No. Child prostitution? They should speak out.

In general they should be speaking out and paying taxes.


That seems a very inconsistent position, tilted to issues that concern you. But the Pope is saying, no, here's an issue that is being ignored that is "one of the greatest sins." Hard to argue that he doesn't think it is a theological matter like abortion if it is one of the greatest sins.

I have to say though that I'm surprised you think the Pope should not speak out against war. I'm not up on Catholic religious teachings, but it certainly seems that a lot of the wars in the world at present don't fall under its Just War doctrine. If the Pope thought they were not Just, wouldn't it be his duty to say so? Or, on the other hand, to say so if he thought a war was Just? I recall a number of high profile US Cardinals publicly backing the Vietnam War in the 60s.

Anyway, these questions are clearly difficult as to where to draw the line. But I do think it's awfully odd that I have seen so little coverage of this, no matter what one's position is.

Which is not to say that I--or Catholics--have to agree with the Pope. But I don't see how political matters can be separated neatly from theological matters. There's too much of a grey area.


Oh course it is grey area. Makes it more convinient.

Make them pay taxes and they can say whatever they want. Still not sanctioned by the state, but without skin in the game they all need to shut up.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
landmark
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Well if you're taking the position that they should all pay taxes, we're certainly in agreement there. But realistically, I think it's going to be a cold day in hell before the major religions open up their books.
Dannydoyle
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Yes sad.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
RNK
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On Jul 14, 2017, R.S. wrote:
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On Jul 14, 2017, RNK wrote:
We don't become Holy until we die.


How do you know this? And what exactly do you mean by "Holy"?

Ron


Faith and the Bible. But I know that's something you do not believe in which is totally fine (for you). It's not my job to judge you and anybody else's beliefs. Holy is being perfect and sinless. And NO human is sinless including the Pope.
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, RNK wrote:
We don't become Holy until we die.


How do you know this? And what exactly do you mean by "Holy"?

Ron


Faith and the Bible. But I know that's something you do not believe in which is totally fine (for you). It's not my job to judge you and anybody else's beliefs. Holy is being perfect and sinless. And NO human is sinless including the Pope.


What, if anything, is sinless and perfect?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
0pus
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On Jul 19, 2017, RNK wrote:

Faith and the Bible. . . . And NO human is sinless including the Pope.


Doesn't Faith and the Bible teach that Mary was sinless?
Dannydoyle
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It also teaches she is dead.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
0pus
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. . . or so you assume.
rockwall
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
It also teaches she is dead.


I must have missed that part. Where was that?
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, 0pus wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, RNK wrote:

Faith and the Bible. . . . And NO human is sinless including the Pope.


Doesn't Faith and the Bible teach that Mary was sinless?


Not quite. For Catholics, there are so-called "Marian doctrines". These are the church's position on Mary. One of these doctrines is "immaculate conception". The idea is that all humans are born with the "stain of original sin"--with a single exception: Mary. She did not live sinlessly; but she was born with a clean slate.

Most protestant Christians do not accept this doctrine. I'm not sure about Anglicans or Orthodox.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
It also teaches she is dead.


I must have missed that part. Where was that?

http://taylormarshall.com/2013/08/did-th......die.html

Go ahead now tell me "well that's not the Bible" so you can cling to being right.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
0pus
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Although there is much to support a case for the death of Mary, there is no definitive Catholic doctrine around it. I believe that Catholics are free to believe that Mary did not die - and that the assumption occurred without her having to have died.
Dannydoyle
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Did you read the link?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
rockwall
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
It also teaches she is dead.


I must have missed that part. Where was that?

http://taylormarshall.com/2013/08/did-th......die.html

Go ahead now tell me "well that's not the Bible" so you can cling to being right.


OK, I'll keep clinging. I never said that she didn't die. I would guess that she almost certainly did. However, I'm pretty sure it's not something taught by the bible which is what your claim was.
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