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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Pope Francis recent statement on Labor Unions (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Dannydoyle
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Yea keep clinging because AFTER HER EARTHLY life she was assumed body and soul into heaven. That is indeed in the Bible is it not?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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CT one day I'll have
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, RNK wrote:
We don't become Holy until we die.


How do you know this? And what exactly do you mean by "Holy"?

Ron


Faith and the Bible. But I know that's something you do not believe in which is totally fine (for you). It's not my job to judge you and anybody else's beliefs. Holy is being perfect and sinless. And NO human is sinless including the Pope.


Is there a reason why you choose to put your faith in the Bible and not, say, the Quran or the Hindu Vedas, or some other religious book?
If we all have “sin”, and then we become perfect and sinless after we die, then what is the purpose of hell?


Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea keep clinging because AFTER HER EARTHLY life she was assumed body and soul into heaven. That is indeed in the Bible is it not?


Are you guys arguing whether a fictional character died a normal death? Or just if the bible says she did?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
tommy
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When the worlds of gambling and magic meet there is always confusion and as it is with the worlds of gambling and magic so it is with the worlds of politics and religion. The noble profession of politics and religion have given us many fanatics who have combined the two and then wreaked havoc.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Yea keep clinging because AFTER HER EARTHLY life she was assumed body and soul into heaven. That is indeed in the Bible is it not?


Are you guys arguing whether a fictional character died a normal death? Or just if the bible says she did?


Oh I am not saying it is fact.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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If it is all well and good for the Pope to mix politics with religion then is what is good for the goose good for the gander?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
0pus
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Did you read the link?


Yes I did.

Some theologians hold that “having completed the course of her earthly life” does not mean she 'died.' She simply completed her mission.

I am not saying I agree with this, but my understanding of Catholic doctrine is that she was born without sin; there is no doctrine that I am aware of that requires a belief that she died or did not die. Doctrine is silent on the matter, notwithstanding the statements made by various popes.

To Magnus's point that she was not sinless - I also think that there is no Catholic doctrine that holds that despite being born without sin, Mary was not sinless during the course of her life. Nor does any doctrine hold that she remained sinless during her life. Again, I believe that doctrine is silent on this matter as well.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Jul 20, 2017, 0pus wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Did you read the link?


Yes I did.

Some theologians hold that “having completed the course of her earthly life” does not mean she 'died.' She simply completed her mission.

I am not saying I agree with this, but my understanding of Catholic doctrine is that she was born without sin; there is no doctrine that I am aware of that requires a belief that she died or did not die. Doctrine is silent on the matter, notwithstanding the statements made by various popes.

To Magnus's point that she was not sinless - I also think that there is no Catholic doctrine that holds that despite being born without sin, Mary was not sinless during the course of her life. Nor does any doctrine hold that she remained sinless during her life. Again, I believe that doctrine is silent on this matter as well.


I believe that you are correct on all points here.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
NYCTwister
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Quote:
On Jul 20, 2017, 0pus wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Did you read the link?


Yes I did.

Some theologians hold that “having completed the course of her earthly life” does not mean she 'died.' She simply completed her mission.

I am not saying I agree with this, but my understanding of Catholic doctrine is that she was born without sin; there is no doctrine that I am aware of that requires a belief that she died or did not die. Doctrine is silent on the matter, notwithstanding the statements made by various popes.

To Magnus's point that she was not sinless - I also think that there is no Catholic doctrine that holds that despite being born without sin, Mary was not sinless during the course of her life. Nor does any doctrine hold that she remained sinless during her life. Again, I believe that doctrine is silent on this matter as well.


So, Mary was somehow born without "original sin", became a sinner (because who can avoid that), and then was chosen by god to impregnate - with himself?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
RNK
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Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, RNK wrote:
We don't become Holy until we die.


How do you know this? And what exactly do you mean by "Holy"?

Ron


Faith and the Bible. But I know that's something you do not believe in which is totally fine (for you). It's not my job to judge you and anybody else's beliefs. Holy is being perfect and sinless. And NO human is sinless including the Pope.


Is there a reason why you choose to put your faith in the Bible and not, say, the Quran or the Hindu Vedas, or some other religious book?
If we all have “sin”, and then we become perfect and sinless after we die, then what is the purpose of hell?


Ron


Yes Ron, because there is more physical evidence that has been discovered in regards to Jesus' existence than any other. And the purpose of hell is for those who have not chosen to believe and accept that Jesus is our Creator, King and Savior who was sent by God to atone for our sins by being tortured and killed will not be saved and spend the rest of their days after this life in constant suffering and pain.


RNK
NYCTwister
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On Jul 20, 2017, RNK wrote:
Yes Ron, because there is more physical evidence that has been discovered in regards to Jesus' existence than any other. And the purpose of hell is for those who have not chosen to believe and accept that Jesus is our Creator, King and Savior who was sent by God to atone for our sins by being tortured and killed will not be saved and spend the rest of their days after this life in constant suffering and pain.
RNK


And you believe this BECAUSE it's in the bible?
If you need fear to enforce your beliefs, then your beliefs are worthless.
tommy
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Pope Francis cited St. Basil of Caesarea’s description of capitalism as “the dung of the devil.” Capitalism has made men and women slaves to greed, and has spread death, destruction and poverty throughout the world. Global (read, Western) capitalism is the colonialism of our time. Its agents are rapacious multinationals, international loan agencies, and certain “free trade” treaties, which only enrich the 1 per cent. “Human beings and nature must not be at the service of money,” the Pope said, because “that economy destroys Mother Earth.”

And I would not argue with him.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Well this should bring an end to this thread pretty quickly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
R.S.
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Quote:
On Jul 20, 2017, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 19, 2017, RNK wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, R.S. wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 14, 2017, RNK wrote:
We don't become Holy until we die.


How do you know this? And what exactly do you mean by "Holy"?

Ron


Faith and the Bible. But I know that's something you do not believe in which is totally fine (for you). It's not my job to judge you and anybody else's beliefs. Holy is being perfect and sinless. And NO human is sinless including the Pope.


Is there a reason why you choose to put your faith in the Bible and not, say, the Quran or the Hindu Vedas, or some other religious book?
If we all have “sin”, and then we become perfect and sinless after we die, then what is the purpose of hell?


Ron


Yes Ron, because there is more physical evidence that has been discovered in regards to Jesus' existence than any other. And the purpose of hell is for those who have not chosen to believe and accept that Jesus is our Creator, King and Savior who was sent by God to atone for our sins by being tortured and killed will not be saved and spend the rest of their days after this life in constant suffering and pain.


RNK


Hi RNK,

Thanks for responding. There's much to discuss here. Would you be willing to take this discussion private? I think this would be an interesting conversation, but I don't think this is the place to do it.

Ron
"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry." Thomas Paine
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