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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricky business » » Do You Believe You Should "Fake It Till You Make It?" (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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CurtWaltermire
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Quite frankly, I get tired of hearing this phrase. Especially from the motivational/inspirational industry speakers.

I know; it isn't meant to be taken too literally. However, I believe the very nature of the phrase lends itself to an odd sort-of-self-imposed false hope.

A conversation I had with a friend of mine recently prompted me to dig into this a bit more. She was having a really tough go of things, and she managed to muster up a half-baked grin and said "I know, 'fake-it-till-you-make-it' right?' It was obvious that she didn't believe that. Neither did I.

What do many of my friends here think about this concept?

Do you feel like you're "faking" it until you "make it?"

If "faking it" takes you to your goal (whatever that may be), then why change things?

Who wants to build their lives on something false?

What does it mean, then, to "make it?"

More on my thoughts and a personal story here: http://curtisthementalist.com/fake-it-ti......hink-so/
Curtis Waltermire

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Dannydoyle
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I have said fir a long time it is just crazy.

The problem is usually guys end up getting busted faking it. Plus how do you know when you have made it?

Being honest with yourself and others is really the way to go.

I'm sure I'll be told how crazy I am and mean and all the usual stuff.

And to answer who wants to build their lives on something false just poke around the Internet for 2 minutes. You find a shocking answer.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
BrianMillerMagic
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The idea of "fake it till you make it" is often used to imply that you should fake confidence when you don't have it yet. When you just start performing in front of an audience, for example, you definitely aren't confident yet. But, if you can muster up the illusion of confidence, you can get through performances. If you do that enough, you start to develop real confidence from positive experiences.

I think it is often meant to imply that there is always a first time to try a new thing, and you're never completely ready. For example, the first time you work a restaurant as a magician. No matter how much you read, learn, and study about restaurant magic, you aren't really ready until you start doing it. You "fake it" when you first start and, much like developing confidence, you learn the nitty gritty through experience.

Be as prepared as you can be - learn, study, and practice before you do a new thing. But at some point you've just got to go for it, and that is, I believe, the underlying idea behind the old "fake it till you make it" expression.

Just for a different opinion than those that have already been stated.
Mindpro
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This is interesting because again I think there is a generational difference in interpretation. As Brian said, I think that is how it was thought of or referred to for many of us that came up in previous generations. However, I get the opportunity to work with others of all ages and generations, and I have found it has a different perception and acceptance today.

Today, I see it used as you can simply fake your way to success. Don't wait until you have worked hard, paid your dues over time and gained actual experience, just say, claim and act as if you do/have and that is all that is needed.

The problem, much like the puffery, self-created testimonials, self-created blogs, vlogs and social media, exaggerated claims and blatant false claims, these guys start to believe their own BS! This then becomes their own acceptance of fake it til you make it. Why commit and go through all of the actual efforts and work when you can simply take shortcuts and claim to be something you are not as if done convincingly enough, most will not know. (This is what they think, but in actuality those with the actual experience and any level of commitment to it can see this a mile away). They are faking themselves into believing it isn't so.

No, now we have performers and business operators, believing the work they do in their fakery, puffery and facade, actually start to believe that is putting in the work of actually doing it. Reality then becomes distorted. This then becomes a false foundation of course which everything is built upon.

We've seen it here in this very forum over the years. There is never a sense of actual accomplishment in faking it til you make it only the accomplishment of thinking they're pulling it off. It then becomes putting effort in the wrong areas and exact opposite of what they could be.

Like Curt, I too am tired of it. What is bothersome now, it that I have read and viewed many resources, books, courses where this is actually said and offered as a beginning method! If was just to gain confidence maybe that would be one thing, but it is being taught as an actual shortcut method to "success." Without even having to think too hard, I know two or three members here that fit this well.

The truth is still the same as it always has been - you can not fake experience. Experience only comes from actually doing it, working on it, evolving and improving. The real problem is many that believe the fake it til they make it, never will actually make it, often times because of using just this very same approach.
Sealegs
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To my mind, interesting as it was, Curtis' story doesn't have any bearing on the phrase, 'Fake it 'till you make it'.

Brian expressed, with more eloquence than I would have done, the manner in which I've always heard and interpreted this phrase being used.
Neal Austin

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Dannydoyle
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If you search the phrase here nobody seems to think it is about confidence.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
CurtWaltermire
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2017, Sealegs wrote:
To my mind, interesting as it was, Curtis' story doesn't have any bearing on the phrase, 'Fake it 'till you make it'.

Brian expressed, with more eloquence than I would have done, the manner in which I've always heard and interpreted this phrase being used.


In an attempt to keep the video short, I did in fact fail to really drive home the connection between the two. I assure you it wasn't deliberate.

There were a lot of fakers, posers, and suck ups at the school. It was full of people trying to emulate, often in ridiculous ways, the leadership of the school. They dressed like them, talked like them, acted like them, etc. It was ridiculous. In fact, the course where this incident took place was "The Psychology of Self-Development." As you can tell this was a raw and candid video done in one shot (as I was on my way to the gym that day) and I was just freely blabbing.

I should have mentioned that I "once attended a private college where the idea of "fake it till you make it" was often taken to ridiculous extremes," or something like that. The experience I had that night in that lecture hall was just an example of that.

I know that the supposed "real" meaning behind it has more to do with overcoming self-doubt, a feeling of inadequacy for a task, etc. It is something people use to help them branch out into new territory, new careers, etc, in their lives. In that sense, it is difficult to find fault with to some degree.

However, my problem with it is in the language. People love cute phrases like this (especially motivational speakers), kind of like those "content snacks" that are so rampant on social media. However, like those "snacks," the real truth is often missing or greatly exaggerated for the sake of simplicity and short attention spans. Then it is only a matter of time before people are taking it to it's own ridiculous conclusions.

I've done a lot of things in my life that I felt inadequate for, didn't have any real experience at, etc, and it wasn't these trite and meaningless phrases that helped me see it through. It was perseverance, education, experience, understanding, hard work, etc.
Curtis Waltermire

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CurtWaltermire
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Curtis The Mentalist
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Quote:
On Jul 26, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
And to answer who wants to build their lives on something false just poke around the Internet for 2 minutes. You find a shocking answer.


Actually, Danny, it only took me about a minute-and-a-half, mainly because my internet is slow today!
Smile
Curtis Waltermire

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Mindpro
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I think you hit on an important factor Curt. In this day of short attention spans, 140 character world, the 5 second impression, etc. it has become so easy for information to only be presented as an overview or quick snapshot. Much is missing and left to interpretation. Others therefore create their own interpretations which are often misinterpretations. The "fake it til you make it" concept benefits from this as everything is taken at surface level and allows faking it to occur more commonly.

If you have the chance to confront or ask for greater details and information, you are ignored, brushed over or often left unanswered. For those that have actually "made it" or with actual experience, the opposite is most prominent. They proudly, willingly and excitedly expand and share in much greater detail.

For example, I know most will say they don't like it, but I have always enjoyed those very texty, long-formed websites IF they address the actual content and are not just hype and aggressive selling. When I want information on something, I WANT long, detailed, in-depth information. This brief, surface stuff will not serve my interests or needs.

I hear it all the time with those I coach or consult. They are usually amazed at the depth and detail I provide in the question or topic being asked or discussed. I've always felt in order to gain a true understanding of something, you need much more than surface, at-a-glance information. Of course social media thrives off of this and actually seems to encourage the whole fake it til you make it business model.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2017, CurtWaltermire wrote:
Quote:
On Jul 26, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
And to answer who wants to build their lives on something false just poke around the Internet for 2 minutes. You find a shocking answer.


Actually, Danny, it only took me about a minute-and-a-half, mainly because my internet is slow today!
Smile


Good point. LOL.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2017, Sealegs wrote:
To my mind, interesting as it was, Curtis' story doesn't have any bearing on the phrase, 'Fake it 'till you make it'.

Brian expressed, with more eloquence than I would have done, the manner in which I've always heard and interpreted this phrase being used.



Same here. I thought Brian said it well, and I too think of it as building confidence, not misleading prospects and clients.

Tom
A habit is a habit until you realize you doing it, then it is a choice.

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Dannydoyle
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Do you deny that is used to justify misleading clients?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Do you deny that is used to justify misleading clients?


No I'm sure some do lie to prospects, but that usually catches up with them pretty fast.

Telling yourself how good you are to help build confidence can be a good thing. Many have
did that with great success.

Tom
A habit is a habit until you realize you doing it, then it is a choice.

The NEW Daycare Magician Book
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Dannydoyle
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And many have mislead themselves until it catches up with them.

As a matter of fact have you encourages people here to fake it to clients? Keeping in mind old threads still exist.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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I am always encouraging others, especially the young, to give a good first impression, and to project your best/confidence to prospects and clients, but NOT ONCE HAVE I TOLD ANYONE TO LIE. Please don't suggest that I have.

Tom
A habit is a habit until you realize you doing it, then it is a choice.

The NEW Daycare Magician Book
https://www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

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Mindpro
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Seems some of us remember this differently. We all remember you encouraging someone who admittedly lied, deceived, used others materials and tried to pass them off as their own, had minimal experience yet was trying to be the latest guru and who openly admitted to activities that were unethical at least, perhaps even illegal. As Danny said old threads still exist. So does the little eagle.

To many of us, supporting and encouraging this type of person or activity is akin to supporting lying or at least a very close fine line.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Jul 27, 2017, TomBoleware wrote:
I am always encouraging others, especially the young, to give a good first impression, and to project your best/confidence to prospects and clients, but NOT ONCE HAVE I TOLD ANYONE TO LIE. Please don't suggest that I have.

Tom


Have you encouraged those in the process of telling lies?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
TomBoleware
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NOPE, never told anybody to lie, and the ONE that mindpro is referring to I flat out told he should never lie.


Tom
A habit is a habit until you realize you doing it, then it is a choice.

The NEW Daycare Magician Book
https://www.amazekids.com/magic-downloads/childrens-magic-ebooks/the-daycare-magician/

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Dannydoyle
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You never encouraged people to mislead about their experience?

If we find threads where you did will you admit it?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Sealegs
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I wonder if Steve Brooks can open up a separate section of the Café where you boys can bat back and forth and have a go at each other? it might stop, what seems like, every thread in this section of the Café from falling into the same dull miasma that this one is now in. Smile
Neal Austin

"The golden rule is that there are no golden rules." G.B. Shaw
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