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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Magic names and the media » » Shin Lim second passage at Fool Us - Edited ? (21 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Alex DLF
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Hi guys !

I was wondering about the second passage from Shin Lim at Fool Us, I had some concerns about it.

First, the fact Pen and Teller were fooled by the act.

Second, the act was shot at least two times and the final video is edited from those passages. You can notice the sleeves going up and down his arms by themselves, quite a few times. I timed the most obvious moment here :

https://youtu.be/thIlxChNYqk?t=3m23s

So my question is : is it normal that those acts are edited when the aim is to fool P&T with your best act ? Or maybe there were flashes in the actual performance so Shin wanted to shot it again so it looks perfect on video ? I don't understand the aim.

It would be cool to discuss this !
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Ceierry
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Hey Alex. I believe the replays are edited yes, like the Jay Sankey one.
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MeetMagicMike
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Penn has commented on his podcast that the host, Alison, wears the same dress all season because the acts we see on one show were not necessarily all filmed on the same day. I guess they move the acts around so that you get a good mix on each show.

I didn't realize the acts themselves could be edited but it's not a shocker. We've seen this on America's Got Talent where parts of an act are edited out and the result is that the trick seems even more impossible. This happened on the performance of Card Toon and lead to much debate because it looked like he didn't make "the move".

I'm sure the acts do a full dress rehearsal which is taped and gives the editor shots that he can drop in if needed. There are lots of reasons an editor might need to do this.

It would be nice if Penn and Teller would address this on the show. I doubt the editing covered up anything major.
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Neznarf
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Good info. thanks guys. Alyson Hannigan wearing the same BLUE DRESS made me comment each time wife and I watched P&YFU.
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WitchDocChris
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I wouldn't be surprised if they edited it at all. Why wouldn't they? It's a show. They want the best show possible, so editing to make sure the performer is represented well is a good thing. Just like when magicians go on to a talk show and they make sure they are getting the best angles for the home audience to experience the magic.

That's why Penn & Teller are the ones judging. They are working on the idea that as famous and experienced magicians, laymen will trust their judgment as to whether something fooled them or not. The show is not named "Penn & Teller - Fool the audience", it's called "Penn & Teller Fool Us". The audience is just there to watch it happen, not to provide guesses themselves.
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David Numen
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Does it matter? It's not as if it's a real competition - it's an interesting way to get a magic show on TV. Yeah, people like Shin have the genius to fool P&T but does anyone believe a magician as talented and knowledgable as Andi Gladwin REALLY thought that routine would fool the boys? Does anyone really think the lady with the knives thought for a second her routine would fool them? I'm quite sure neither did but both welcomed the opportunity for international TV exposure.
MeetMagicMike
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It matters in the sense that it's a good idea that people discussing the performances know what they are discussing.
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WitchDocChris
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Yes there certainly seems to be two types who go on the show - those who are genuinely trying to Fool P&T, and those who are just going to get the exposure and do not care at all if they fool them. Both are valid, assuming one leverages the exposure effectively.
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David Numen
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Quote:
On Jul 31, 2017, MeetMagicMike wrote:
It matters in the sense that it's a good idea that people discussing the performances know what they are discussing.


What does that even mean?

It's a TV magic performance. It's not a dem for a product - in which case I agree editing is questionable...but as a TV performance I see no problem with editing. The only people it would offend are those trying to work out how it was done...
MeetMagicMike
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You don't agree that people should understand what they are discussing? Alex simply pointed out something that
Many people didn't' know.
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Ray Haining
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Another example--and a perfect one at that--of why, in my opinion, magic on TV doesn't work and does nothing to promote magic as a performing art and, in fact, does actual harm to laymen's conception of magic.
WitchDocChris
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What, exactly, was in this clip that in any way harmed popular perception of magic?

I'll point this out, by the way - Shin Lim is one of the only magicians my family has ever mentioned to me that they liked.
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korttihai_82
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Quote:
On Jul 31, 2017, WitchDocChris wrote:
What, exactly, was in this clip that in any way harmed popular perception of magic?


Well, I would count extensive overuse of two methods quite harmful. My laymen friends reaction to act can be summed up by one comment by a good friend of mine; " Does he really assume people don't realize that he is dragging all those black objects off the table edge".... But of course it is hard for magicians to admit that most laymen CAN THINK!!! Often better than magicians and they can also be polite and not say anything.

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I don't thing there is a major loss of enjoyment even if people may have an inkling as to how some (small) portions of an effect are done...
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MagicMan1957
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Did he really fool Penn and Teller? NO.

That being said..... did they know how he did every single move in that routine? Maybe not.

And remember they were fooled by a chicken a few episodes back !
tomd
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This is free exposure for magicians in general.. shows like this are the reason that people take such an interest when you introduce yourself as a magician/mentalist. AGT, P&TFU, Dynamos specials, Blaines specials, even criss angels stuff all add to it.

I really wish I did care whether or not P&T were fooled, but I don't. All it is, is more people talking about magicians and magic.

And yes it was probably edited, and it doesn't matter (or at least to us it doesn't, I could imagine a layman noticing the fishy edits and crying foul! But we know better)
MeetMagicMike
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Korttihai_82 wrote

Quote:
Does he really assume people don't realize that he is dragging all those black objects off the table


I'd be surprised if most layman thought in terms of black art and lapping without ever having been exposed to the ideas. Even as a magician it surprises me that black art is as effective as it is here. Of course, there are always exceptions.

As for magic on TV some people want to think only in extremes. A little editing or mechanical help isn't going to instantly destroy magic but on the other hand we can't just say "anything goes".

If anything goes as far as magic on TV then there is no point to magicians on TV. Just watch a Harry Potter movie. What is the point of some guy practicing a lot of technique when CGI is so much more effective? Magic shows have to have at least some credibility or it is pointless.
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tomd
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Quote:
On Jul 31, 2017, MeetMagicMike wrote:
Korttihai_82 wrote

Quote:
Does he really assume people don't realize that he is dragging all those black objects off the table


I'd be surprised if most layman thought in terms of black art and lapping without ever having been exposed to the ideas. Even as a magician it surprises me that black art is as effective as it is here. Of course, there are always exceptions.

As for magic on TV some people want to think only in extremes. A little editing or mechanical help isn't going to instantly destroy magic but on the other hand we can't just say "anything goes".

If anything goes as far as magic on TV then there is no point to magicians on TV. Just watch a Harry Potter movie. What is the point of some guy practicing a lot of technique when CGI is so much more effective? Magic shows have to have at least some credibility or it is pointless.


It's not the effectiveness of the technique, it's the amount of times it was used. Certain laymen will be able to discern that the hand motion has something to do with the trick, in the same way that certain laymen will suss a rough method for the classic Color change, if it was repeated in front of them multiple times. Other people will still be none the wiser.
willmagicman
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Some very interesting comments here guys. Personally, I feel that Shim has scraped the bottom of the barrel here. By that I mean, there's a heck of a lot of this 'black magic' stuff about right now. Loads of magicians are doing it, I feel it's being over done, and only the most gullible of lay persons are actually 'fooled' by it. I really like Shin Lim, but it seems to me that instead of carrying on as he set out and taking his magic to new levels, he is stagnating, and is getting a reputation of being 'the guy who's good with the black stuff'. I admit that his routine was beautifully presented, and he has a wonderful stage persona, [The quintessential magician] but I kind of expected something a little more interesting other than just flashy card production. Maybe next time he'll surprise me and come out on stage wearing a white suit and use a white card mat! Lol. One more thing,.. did anyone else notice how terrible the card spread was in the beginning of his routine? It looked awful to me as it lacked uniformity, and there were large gaps between some of the cards. I'm pretty sure I know why this was the case,as no doubt do most of you guys do, but I'm just saying .. it didn't look very good to see someone with his card handling talent making such an awful job of his spread, and this drew my attention immediately.

I agree with previous posters that in no way were the shows hosts fooled, but admitting to the audience that they were fooled could possibly have tarnished their reputation

Will.
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WitchDocChris
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Here's the thing. I don't spend much time around magicians, and most of my friends aren't even all that interested in magic in general. In general they are the ones who are sharing videos like Shin Lim's performances, and texting me asking if I've seen it. Therefore, the actual lay audience (not the magician-adjacent-lay-audience) seem to enjoy his performances plenty.
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