Hello fellow magicians! Its summer here in The Netherlands, which for me means: lots of performances! I have been having a great time and did many shows in july and have many to come in augustus as well. We have a great hobby/job (however you perform magic!)

One thing that I have noticed last month, as I was doing my show a lot through the country, was the amount of kids (specially the 9-10 year olds and older) that came to me after the show and said they knew how I did my Misers Dream. Now this doesn't surprise me, as it really isn't that hard to find out: I start pretty small (producing them out of thin air), but end with all the kids throwing 'invisible' coins in the can. Thing is, the Misers Dream actually closes my show, so it's the last thing the kids see - also, its the trick that gets me the most responses (certainly 75% of the kids that talk about the show with me at the end, are talking about the Misers Dream). It's highly entertaining, which really is the focus not only of the trick, but also of the whole show. Its funny, surprising and short enough to stay very strong, yet long enough so that everyone understands and participates.

Also, I was thinking about making another topic about this but: the older kids. In the Netherlands we have kids from group 1 till 8 (which is from 4 years till 13 years old). Regurlally I am hired to entertain all of these ages, which honestly I have been doing well since I started with this show; but I do find that 4-8 years old just wanna laugh and have a good time, while the 9-13 year olds want mystery and expect David Copperfield to come in. And once kids 'know' how I do a trick (really, the only one they get is the MD), they run off to their friends to tell 'm about it. When they tell me about it, I always react sort of goofy: 'You know how I did that? You must have a lot of money back at your place!', stuff like that. It gets them laughting. Every now and then I ask them about the first 4-5 coins I produced: 'If I had 'm palmed in my hands, where did those come from?'

My question is, - and not specifically for the MD in my case - does doing a trick some kids understand, damage the show/magic? Is it okay if they understand? And also, is it okay if this is one's finale? Or should the finale always leave everyone with that sensation of: 'How did he do that!?'.

I hope to hear from you! Thank you for your time, and sorry for the bad grammar. Bedankt!

I don't think everything you do needs to be a profound mystery, but that you should leave them with one. I've never liked the throwing of the invisible coins as that gives the trick away to the slowest audience member. Whether you keep it or not, you might consider a different closer. Something short, impactful and that leaves you in applause pose with all the attention on you. For me that's the Gene Anderson newspaper tear.

Perhaps answers this and many questions.

I mix effects where I start with 6 coins in classic (3 of one color)
with
A Lincoln Log Percussion Band accompanying me. (On Harmonica & Ukukele)

I also have been known to lead kids to the water fountain during a show for a small group of kids.

I continue to learn after 30+ years in the Biz.
Yes it is a business.

My latest purchase-
3 dozen mosquito whistles.
Thanks Frank.

I've used the pail as MY pail from MY Wishing well and want to gather wishes from the kids)- from their ear-nose-chin- etc-(plus invisable toss- who cares if they figure it out - its all in fun)& a lot of coins from their nose - then mention taking them(wishes)home to put in Your Wishing Well-- For adults I start with the Pail - saying I have to collect Entertainment Tax - as requested by the Local Government(City Clerk in the U.S.) All L-O-L -- Ralph(russo)Rousseau

Russo, I like your take on this.

It is over 50 years since I visited the land of the klompen! I remember MANY bicycles in Amsterdam!

As Harry Lorayne "usta" say: "You haven't read my book!!!"

I started with the "coin pail" in 1946. (THAT may be before you were born!) I was a part time professional at 14. I had two half dollars, a dozen "Green River Whiskey coins, a tin can, and, a safety pin "dropper". I was working in a carnival side show, doing 15 8 minute shows, a day. I did a rope routine (knots, etc. and the Misers Dream. I've been doing the "MD" ever since. I did it in almost every show for about 20 years. After those years, I decided that I could do it fairly well. I had learned a few other tricks, too! I decided to "turn pro". I did.

I specialized in Lyceum (school assembly programs). In that field, audiences are from 5 years of age thru 18. Audiences could be as large as 2,000, and, my "smallest" group EVER, was 7 students. Doing 13-15 shows a week, over 50 years, and touring about 35 weeks a year I did the MD about 20,000 times. (I've simplified the routine a lot in that time!

I'm retired at 85, so I wrote a book, that includes my complete presentation for the Misers dream, plus most of the tricks/routines that I used. For the last 40 or so years, For the kids from 5 to 11, I CLOSED WITH THE MISERS DREAM. For 12 year olds to 18, it was next to closing.

I've seen a "hundred" plus performers present the MD. Yes, even Chris Capeheart, who more or less "started" the "kids throwing imaginary coins into the bucket". (It had been done before, but only a few kids were asked to toss a coin into the bucket. When the performer has every kid tossing coins, HOW DOES THE PERFORMER, '"SHUT IT OFF"? I've only met him once. I like him. BUT, I don't care for the "EVERYBODY throw a coin into the bucket."

When the performer loses control, he/she is in trouble.

Now, to attempt to answer your specific question...

Today, we have "YOO TOOB"!!! Almost any trick that you can think of, has been exposed by some KLUTZ, who doesn't have the talent to present a show, so he/she "teaches" (?) anyone who is watching, how the trick is DONE. The viewer 'gets' the "bare bones", as Hilliard said in "Greater Magic".

Here's the "rule" that Jay Marshall and I decided was the way to add a trick to one's show":
1. Learn how it is DONE. 2, Learn how to DO it. 3. Learn how to DO it, so that it ENTERTAINS AN AUDIENCE.

MAGIC is not inherently entertaining! It's the performer's PRESENTATION that (hopefully) makes the TRICK'S PERFORMANCE. and, the MAGICAL EFFECT PRODUCED, ENTERTAINING.

Years ago, Nate Leipzig, a vaudeville headliner, who was in demand by the wealthy, as a society entertainer, said: "If "they" like YOU, they will like your show!

I present a real magic show that "fools them, without making fools OF them!" I even explain what "illusion" is! --and demonstrate several. I fool 'em too, but they are laughing throughout!

It IS possible to fool 'em with magic tricks, and entertain them, simultaneously.

If I haven't answered your question sufficiently, feel free to PM me. It may take a few days to reply. I'm busier NOW, than when I was on the road!

P.S. Your grammar is fine. You speak better "American English" than many on the Café, who were born here!

I know how you did it.

You used PayPal.


Harris
Still too old to know it all

I know how you did it!

Me, too! Let's keep it a secret from the others!

And for the opposite scenario

Spectator: "How does it work?"

Magician: "Can you keep a secret?"

Spectator: YES!!!

Magician: "Me too"

Try using multiple methods such that any one method cannot explain the trick.
if both hands are clearly empty yet a coin still falls into the pail, how do they explain that?

I have a large and heavy solid object appear in my change bag that the kid finds at the end of that routine.
I do it for the same reason. It fools everyone that thinks they know the trick and you can't tell me it was in there the whole time.

Either we have answered all of our Dutch friend's questions, or he is too busy to reply. This is almost a month and a half since he asked the question!

I will repeat ("repetition is the mother of students", one of my college professors, repeatedly said!)

I have ONE of the kids onstage, catch an invisible coin, and toss it into the pail. --THAT'S ENOUGH!--

When you get the whole group "catching and tossing", HOW DO YOU SHUT IT OFF???? The old "rule" comes to mind: Don't be "greedy with a principle".

Oh! For those who may have been wondering, the illusion that I explain is the ubiquitous BOOMERANG STICKS which is in every kids' magic kit. The kids (high school youth, too) think that I'm teaching them an ILLUSION!) I follow up by presenting the "spot card" (the TENYO version of "What's Next") which is the Jastrow Area Illusion. The finish "gets" them. For an extra kicker, I do the visible silk thru mike stand. (without tipping the work) If no mike stand is available, I do the T&R napkin without the "sucker" explanation. I wrote this in my book. The late old timers, J. B. Bobo, and Roy Mayer, had the original idea, and passed it along to me about 47 years ago! I use the routine for college age groups and, adults, too. It's 5 minutes, and, packs flat! The only set up is the spot card.

Here are a couple of tips I've used for years for "Know it alls" during a show, whether they are adults or kids:

1. The "Know it all says"......I KNOW HOW YOU DO THAT....My Reply....SO DO I!

2. The "Know it all says"......HEY.....I CAUGHT YOU......My Reply......I CAUGHT MYSELF TWICE!


Your job is TO ENTERTAIN......just Keep Control and keep the show moving..........

Hello to you all! I certainly hadn't forgotten about this topic, but it has been a busy period!
Nice to have so many people responding to this, thank you all for your advice!

What I have been doing latelly, when a kid comes up at the end of the show and tells me how I did the Misers Dream, I tell them it 'll be our secret (pretty much like jimgerrish suggested above). It has been working pretty well. I have heard responses of parents who say their kid was so proud they share a secret with the magician. Also I find that once I say this, kids don't feel the necessity to run over to their friends to share how it's done, which is nice.

I did some different patterns, which didn't include all the kids tossing coins. Although I didn't have any kids saying they knew how I did it, I also feel as if the reactions weren't nearly as strong as when the kids are allowed to throw coins. I film all my show (and try to watch them all), and this was very clear. So I descided to include it again. Once I have a bit more time to rehearse something new for the Misers Dream, I'll try to find my way around making the reactions as strong as with my 'original' routine, but without the throwing coins bit.

Spectator: I know that one.

Magician: Wlll what is his name?

A question for the posters here: I'm not a kids' performer, so I don't know if this would work with kids. But I always begin with a blockbuster and technical routine that says, "This ain't your uncle's magic trick, so don't %^&* with me, and if you do you're gonna be embarrassed." I do it because as a female magician I start without inherent credibility, so I have to establish it right up front. This technique works for adult audiences. Does it work with kids? I know kids can be the toughest audiences.

I don't do "kid shows" either! With a few exceptions, I use the SAME PROPS that help produce the SAME EFFECTS, whether my audience is a Kindergarten, a high school, a college, a Rotary club "ladies night", or a corporate luncheon. (I'm not a trade show performer.) Over the years, I did thousands of Kindergarten THRU 12'th grade student groups. Those schools would book me again, four years later, 'cuz they were all entertained. The bookers liked me, 'cuz the schools liked me. --and, that made my program, easy to sell!

One of my criteria, in producing the program, was VERSATILITY. --Will the EFFECT produced by the TRICK, be entertaining for almost everyone, almost anywhere?

So, danaruns, IMO, that approach would mean nothing to the young ones. In general, kids, don't come in, with "torches & clubs"!
Nor are they holding a cocktail!

When I would be staying in the "Charlie Miller Suite" at Magic Inc. in Chicago, I would be booked for many hospitality suites. I remember Jay Marshall and I, working together on big groups. One of the BIG tricks, was the G.W. Hunter "Impossible Knot"!!! You should see a group of business executives, or engineers, trying to tie that knot!

I have "followed" a performer, or two, in schools, that the audience had not liked. I wrote a few stories about that in my book. I had to "warm them up". I remember two cases, one, a SENIOR High School (grades 10-12) and one, a K-6. In the 10-12 grade school, I got an encore, and a STANDING OVATION, from 1800 students. In the K-6, I got an encore! Believe it or not! I once got a standing "O" in an elementary!

The important thing for magicians to keep in mind, is, that magic "is" 5% sleight of hand skill, 5% sensory illusion, 5% esoteric principles of science, and >>>85%<<< PSYCHOLOGY!

Dana,

I start my show with contact juggling (I'm not that good at it but they are certainly impressed). Perhaps that does help.

In some of my shows I will do a Card Routine that includes a one handed shuffle throwing two back out card fans into the air and catching them in a way that shows the faces to the crowd, tossing the deck behind my back and over my shoulder so that the deck splits in two and I catch the halves in two hands forming two fans and such. While the Adults are way impressed, to the Kids it is no more impressive than Crystal Silk Cylinder. It is just one more thing that an Adult can do with a deck of cards that they cannot.

If I am doing it right, they should be impressed by all of it (my ego aside- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_OtmDP-EvA ).

I do agree that many Kids performers are having problems because they are not sufficiently impressive to set the audiences minds at ease that they won't be embarrassed. Even pre-teen Kids have an acute fear of being embarrassed. Impress them with Magic, make them laugh or both and you are fine. Baby tricks and weak puns will draw their insecurities into play.

I did have some heckling/I Know ho... problems when I was green.

When I do get the occasional "I Know how you did that" I just smile and look at them in a semi conspiratorial way and say, "Try it at Home". It works fine. Sometimes they just want attention or they are not sure how to take Magic.

-Mary Mowder

Keep in mind that they may actually know how you did it. They may have inside knowledge but a poor Magic teacher (or no teacher but the internet) who did not teach them good show manners.

There is also the possibility that we are not doing good tricks. Some tricks are just weak and a good performance can't save 'em.
Or... we might be telegraphing how it is done.

If we don't consider that the fault might be our own we are missing a valuable educational opportunity. We can say the wrong things or fumble or flash or point to the wrong moment or be boring enough that the puzzle is all that is left to entertain 'em. Unless we consider this we are deluding ourselves.

If we are the problem, we need to fix it and not blame the audience. I had to face this when I was green and having problems There is hope, once you address it.

-Mary Mowder

What to do when a kid or adult for that matter says, I know how you did that! There are many ways to respond. Why not just make it simple and tell the truth without being defensive.. Just say. "So Do I" Cheers!

Two responses:

(Whispered) "So do I"

"If you know how I did that, that makes you a magician. And a magician ... what?" (Kid: "Never tells") "So ... you and me, right?"