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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
I've noticed that a great many mentalism performers out there are magicians that also have a mentalism show, but there seems to be a relatively small amount of dedicated mentalists that are not also magicians.
I'm talking about on the full time, professional level. I know personally probably most mentalists also dabble in or at least follow other areas of magic and vice versa. Currently a part timer, I am trying to get more work and trying to refine my understanding of the market. Thus my question: Pros - are you also a magician? Or do you only do mentalism....
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts |
I only perform mentalism - though I have noticed that a lot of the working pros I know also have another day job that supports their income. It may be that magicians are in higher demand than mentalists and that they get more work as a result.
Best, Atlas |
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Sudo Nimh Inner circle 1866 Posts |
What you are selling, is YOU.
What you do is secondary. Speaking purely from my own experiences, most (but not all) people who are in charge of finding and booking entertainment aren't really that concerned most of the time with subtle distinctions. What they are *very* concerned with however, is that their event is successful. It is not unusual to hear from some bookers about their experiences with other performers that they have had in the past - and sometimes that includes a Mystery performer. They often don't have nice things to say. The key in separating yourself from the pack (in my opinion) is personality. If you can't talk for 10 or 15 minutes and not keep them engaged without doing a single effect (not suggesting that you should necessarily do that though), it is a good indicator that you may need to work harder in that area. If your audiences like YOU, you can do almost ANYTHING - as long as you know what you are doing. But if they don't like YOU, the most amazing effects in the world won't save you - or your business. Word travels fast with people who do bookings. I know that probably sounds cliche, and it's not really a direct answer to your question, but it's something I learned during my time "in the trenches." |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
It's good advice, no doubt, but my issue is more about marketing. All of my existing clients are really happy with me. Once I get in there, I am confident in my ability to connect with people.
But I'd like to be working a lot more. And so I am looking at my marketing. Most everybody knows what a magician is, not as many people are familiar with mentalism or mind reading. Also - not too many people are specifically looking to hire a mentalist or mind reader, whereas looking for a magician is much more common. I'm not saying I'm going to switch or change anything about my performing style, but I am wondering if I might need to rethink the degree to which I align myself with magic in terms of marketing (which is currently not at all). I noticed on Looch's website for instance, that he lists 'Mind Reader, Magician, and Entertainer' on his home page. I'm sure that's just marketing and that he doesn't also mix in the sponge bunnies with his act. Hence, I'm curious to see what other pros might be doing. Edit: It also looks like Atlas is described as a magician in at least one place on his site.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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tomd Special user 747 Posts |
In the U.K., a mentalist is a crazy person. So far in my time in Toronto, 95% of people here didn't know what a mentalist was.. although some did play it off as if they did (being polite I guess?)... however you say the word magician, and people flock to you. "You're a magician!?" "Please, can you show me something?". That kind of reaction is assured, especially with audiences below 30 from personal experience.
I think there is a fine line, which I crossed way over for the sake of getting some practice performing (not a mentalist, yet).. but looch treads that line very well in my opinion. |
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Atlas Inner circle 3103 1277 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 6, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: When it comes to your website, the text used is all about using search terms that ARE searched in search engines. Have a look using Google Adwords and you'll find that the term "Magician" is searched for at least 500% more frequently on a monthly basis in your area than the term "Mind Reader" or "Mentalist". Your website is your online business card. Once you've got someone to your site, your job is to tell them as simply as possible what you do and how incredible it is and to get them to take the next step and contact you - at which point, you can more fully educate them regarding the type of entertainment you provide. But at the first, very most basic level, you want to drive traffic to your website and that is best accomplished by using terms that are most frequently searched. Best, Atlas |
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Christopher_Rawlins Special user North West, England. 518 Posts |
I'm not working any events as a Magician.
Interesting thread though. What I see a lack of in the UK at least is performers who can hold a room and perform a full show that is really worked, tested and perfected to a professional level.
My Work - http://c-r-products.yolasite.com
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WitchDocChris Inner circle York, PA 2614 Posts |
In my admittedly limited experience, what you call yourself doesn't matter all that much. As has basically been said a few times, the audience doesn't really know the fine differences. What they care about is "Was I entertained?" or "Did this event I planned go well?"
Christopher
Witch Doctor Psycho Seance book: https://tinyurl.com/y873bbr4 Boffo eBook: https://tinyurl.com/387sxkcd |
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Alexxander Elite user Frankfurt, Germany 423 Posts |
I think some people really are not aware of the differences.
However, there are definitely some clients and event planners that do know better. I did a show last month where the client was specifically looking for a mentalist, not a magician. What Atlas refers to is totally understandable and an important thing to consider I believe. I only perform mentalism, but my website mentions the word magician - strictly to end up in search results for "magician", not because I perform any magic effects. The fact that mentalists are rarer than magicians is a big opportunity to position our services as something very special. I think that is a big plus. |
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Shaukat Regular user 123 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 6, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: In my experience, people are not familiar with the term 'Mentalist'. When I perform for strangers, they don't call me a magician, but they don't know what to call me. Friends and family members, well, that's a different story. When it comes to marketing, online marketing to be precise, you have to take care of two things: 1. Your Target Audience 2. Search Engines If you expect to bring traffic to your website by giving away your business cards, then you need to write your Ad copy in a way that will attract your visitors. If you want to bring traffic via search engines, mainly Google, you need to make your Ad copy search engine-friendly by adding keywords that are relevant to your products / services and that people are actually using. People commonly search for "Magicians", so to attract these people, you need to incorporate the word Magician or Magic into your copy. Again, since people are not familiar with Mentalists, they will at least know that they have come to the right website, and then in your Ad Copy you can tell them exactly what you do. So, it's just a bait. Having a heading with the word Entertainer, Magic and Mind Reader (naturally written though) will be helpful. A lot of people destroy their credibility by just adding keywords and not focusing on the quality of their message. Keyword Stuffing is a bad thing and it will eventually get your site penalized. Therefore, the best thing to do is to write your copy with your Audience in Mind, and then naturally and strategically incorporate your keywords (Magician, Entertainer in * city name *, mind reader, etc.) throughout your copy. Again, do clarify in your Copy what you exactly do. Also... Since you will perform in a specific area, city, state, it's best to include that state in your Ad Copy as well. This will help you Rank High in local search results. This practice will make your site Search Engine-friendly. If there is not much competition in your area, you will rank high in search results. If there is competition, there are other things to do that will help you boost your rankings. Your website is your Salesman that never sleeps. Make it engaging! One important thing... Don't hesitate to include a 'Call to Action'. If you think, "It won't look good if I ask my visitors to hire me or contact me." then you will make a big, big mistake. This has to be done... and it must be done professionally. Reference: I am a web copywriter by profession and I have managed a few SEO projects in the past. I hope this helps. |
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David Thiel Inner circle Western Canada...where all that oil is 4005 Posts |
You can't sell yourself to someone who never finds you. Atlas is right. "Magician" is searched MUCH more frequently than any of the variations of 'mentalist' or 'mind reader.'
It is true that the terms for what we do are becoming better known with all of the mentalism entertainment featured on vehicles like America's Got Talent etc. but it sill is a term most people don't quite understand. People won't buy what they don't understand. Since those of us who aren't known like Osterlind or Banachek need to make a living by the shows we sell, it's critical not to cut out all of the people looking for mystery entertainment under the "magic" banner by insisting that you are a 'mentalist.' We are, after all, in show BUSINESS. I explain much more about this in my book "The Marketing Minded Mentalist" -- but briefly the PURPOSE of a website is to put potential clients in touch with you. Once they contact me, I only talk as a mentalist and only discuss mentalism. All the clips on my site are of me performing mentalism and all of the references are from mentalism shows. But if they can't find me if they have no idea who or where I am. I do the same thing with the on-line services I subscribe to. At GigMasters, for example, you will see me listed under Magician and Mentalist. I simply follow the same process with those leads. David
Whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Except bears. Bears will kill you.
My books are here: www.magicpendulums.com www.MidnightMagicAndMentalism.com |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12938 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 6, 2017, Sudo Nimh wrote: So true So true Mr Sudo. I was a full time entertainer for 15 + years. I did it all. Rarely thought about separating my self. When I did entertain the idea I only confused myself. So I gave in and performed mentalism in the mentalism show and magic in the magic show. If I just wanted to have fun I did both. I did have a show called The Mind Matters. Specifically designed around the powers of the mind. But what Sudo says is true. The part about being able to stand on stage and just talk with out pulling out a deck or pad or juggling balls. In my full time position today as an --------- I tell friends or other folks that want to do what I do the exact same thing: If you can walk into a complete strangers house and talk to and engage them for 10 - 20 minutes you can do what I do. The actual technical aspect of what I do can be learned. Dressing up and showing up is the main thing. The age old question: should I perform magic or mentalism? You decide. Do you want to entertain? Then perform for entertainment's sake. This question will never have an answer as long as there are more than one folks being questioned. I had a family to feed eventually and couldn't make enough as a full time entertainer. Not many of us can. I suppose it depends on how much you NEED to make. As David says he was I too was listed in Gigmasters under magician, mind reader, mystery entertainer etc. keep on truckin! JC |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
Yeah, I also am listed under various magic categories, on gigmasters and gigsalad, (as well as mind reading, psychic entertainment, tarot readings, and others) which is great for SEO and making connections.
A big question about that with respect to this thread: When responding to leads through those sites - mostly people looking for magicians - how much to pitch mentalism as something different in the responses. If I want to get the gigs, perhaps I should stop saying that I am not a magician, or maybe say something like I specialize in mentalism, which is mind reading magic. That pains me slightly because I have been very much an advocate of mentalism as a separate and distinct art form from magic, however, I am considering backtracking a little when it comes to marketing... what good is an entertainer that is too obscure to actually entertain anyone... Maybe for the purposes of getting gigs, mentalism IS just a type of magic.... (!) Grumble
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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PhilDean Elite user 445 Posts |
Mentalism is a type of magic. Despite what the purists say - you're writing this on the MAGIC Café!
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Yes, which accounts for much of the mentalities here.
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 6, 2017, PhilDean wrote: Yes this is the magic Café, but you wouldn't say that hypnosis is a type of magic and there is a forum here for that.... Magic and mentalism are sister arts IMO. Effective mentalism looks and is perceived differently than magic. Let's use Derren Brown's first series for example. People didn't see him as a magician. I have people after nearly every performance asking me questions that imply that what I did was in some way real. Anyway - that's not something I have any questions or doubts about. The questions and doubts are about effective marketing to get more work.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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John C Eternal Order I THINK therefore I wrote 12938 Posts |
Your option are yours for your career. Choose one and stick with it. Specialize for your own satisfaction.
Be one or the other and don't look back. Switching back and forth isn't good. Being an ENTERTAINER allows you to do both. Magical entertainer. Mystery entertainer. If you're a motivational speaker you should be motivational. Doesn't matter what kind of demonstrations you perform to enhance your message. Just as long as they do...enhance your message. If you are a kid magician don't do grown up mind reading experiments. Do a kid show. It's rather simple, but then again we make it complex for fear of losing out on something. pay me later. |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts |
I'm not at all talking about changing anything in my performance style. I'll always be a dedicated mentalist. I love magic and I play around with it as a hobby, but professionally I only do mentalism.
I also want more work. I believe that I am getting most of the work in my area for people who know they want a mentalist. I am struggling with how to talk to people who are looking for a magician and my name comes up. Should I start telling them that I am a type of a magician? Previously I have explained that I am not a magician and said things like 'mentalism is in some ways similar to magic, being a theatrical presentation of something seemingly impossible'. But I am finding that people aren't quite sure about it since they aren't familiar with mentalism. Should I try saying that I am a magician? Just one with a mental twist? Really trying to find a nice balance here that is true to my artistic vision and yet gets me work. And FWIW - I am a small business owner and mentalism is a side gig. I don't know that I'd ever want to solely support myself on performing, but for sure I'd like to be working as much as I can.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10586 Posts |
Quote:
On Sep 6, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: I'll always be a dedicated mentalist. I love magic and I play around with it as a hobby, but professionally I only do mentalism. You have some very valid points and several good perspectives. There is some poor advice being offered here (mostly form magicians) as most is only opinion and only coming from their own perspective. This question should really be in Tricky Business (the business forum here) where you would likely get an entirely different set of perspectives from more of the business sense and perspective from real workers, agents, etc. Point is when buyers and bookers in professional markets and even customers or client is consumer markets are seeking mentalism they DON'T want magic (and will often specifically tell you this). Often magicians, especially those that proclaim mentalism is just a part of magic, only think and see things as magicians, from a magician's perspective, not the bigger picture. And not always from a sense that is best for business. This is obvious from many of the posts here so far. You want business advice, go to the business section. You want magician's advice on mental magic, since most of the actual mentalists are gone, stay here. |
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dusty Veteran user 352 Posts |
Although I have been performing close-up magic as Dusty the magician and Mentalism as Max Gordon for over 20 years.
I NEVER perform both acts on the same gig. If the client wants close-up magic followed by a mentalism show, I book another magician to perform close-up. In my opinion by doing both I am implying, that if I can full them by sleight of hand, then in all likely hood, I am using these skills in the mentalism show. (And guess what, they would be right!!!!) My website: www.magicalsolutions.co.uk allows me to get in all the metadata to allow google to find me and once found the client can choose Magic or Mind Reading from there. This post is not here to pontificate, it is here to explain my desire to differentiate between what each performance includes.
Regards,
Dusty aka Max Gordon. "Always give 100%, Unless you're a blood donor!" Exclusive publications available from: www.solutions.yolasite.com |
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