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Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Sep 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
So how about we close all pawn shops?


How about we regulate them instead?
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
tommy
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If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On Sep 15, 2017, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
So how about we close all pawn shops?


How about we regulate them instead?


More than they already are?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Sep 16, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2017, Magnus Eisengrim wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 15, 2017, Dannydoyle wrote:
So how about we close all pawn shops?


How about we regulate them instead?


More than they already are?


I don't know the local regulations where you are, so I can't comment.

In general, pawn shops should be regulated (they certainly are here) to prevent usury. Which is the point of this discussion.

No need to shut them down. Just put some controls on the power they exert over vulnerable people. We probably agree here, Danny.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
Dannydoyle
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They are already regulated out the wazoo. But landmark seems to think it is exploitation.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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I think you ought to know at your age that time is money.

If you charge $15.00 FLAT fee for a two-week loan of $200, then what do you think your annual interest rate is?
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Sep 16, 2017, tommy wrote:
I think you ought to know at your age that time is money.

If you charge $15.00 FLAT fee for a two-week loan of $200, then what do you think your annual interest rate is?


Explain it to me. It seems to me, if he's charging a flat fee, then there IS no "interest rate."

The interest is $15.00. Not 1%, not 5%, not 9%, not 125%, $15.00
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
tommy
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Explain to the reader, what's in a name, when a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.


A flat fee of $15 on a $200 two week loan by any other name is 7.5% interest every two weeks.

That incidentally is far more than the loan sharks, which he loathes, are charging, as they are only charging 8% per month.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Quote:
On Sep 15, 2017, NYCTwister wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 14, 2017, rockwall wrote:
So Tommy and landmark and anyone else who thinks they charge too much, if you were to start a business to help people out by loaning them a bit of money until their next paycheck, what would you charge to loan someone $200 for 2 weeks?


A $15.00 flat fee. 7.5% of the total.

I don't know if that's enough for a business, which only makes these types of loans, to be sufficiently profitable but that's not the major point; which is that, by nature, these types of businesses are another symptom of the moral crisis the world is facing - and has been facing for millennia.

There are cleaner ways of making money.
The idea of investing considerable resources in order to go into this type of business is repugnant to me.

The fact that, in 2017, it's still a viable and profitable business is shame on us.

I've lived through periods where what I had wasn't going to make it to payday. It's a horrible feeling in general, but the worst part was how limited your possibilities seem to get. I can easily see how one can fall into a downward spiral, constantly thinking that there is no other choice - especially if your skill set is limited.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Dannydoyle
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Is it legal and moral Ed just so you don't call it interest?
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Sep 18, 2017, tommy wrote:
Explain to the reader, what's in a name, when a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.


A flat fee of $15 on a $200 two week loan by any other name is 7.5% interest every two weeks.

That incidentally is far more than the loan sharks, which he loathes, are charging, as they are only charging 8% per month.


As I understand it, the interest gets added to the principal. Slip behind and you end up paying on the interest and the principal doesn't ever diminish. A flat fee is s flat fee. You owe $215.00. Period. Not 215, then 230, then 245.
"There's no time to lose," I heard her say.
"Catch your dreams before they slip away."
"Dying all the time, lose your dreams and you could lose your mind.
Ain't life unkind?"
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, ed rhodes wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 18, 2017, tommy wrote:
Explain to the reader, what's in a name, when a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

A flat fee of $15 on a $200 two week loan by any other name is 7.5% interest every two weeks.

That incidentally is far more than the loan sharks, which he loathes, are charging, as they are only charging 8% per month.

As I understand it, the interest gets added to the principal. Slip behind and you end up paying on the interest and the principal doesn't ever diminish. A flat fee is s flat fee. You owe $215.00. Period. Not 215, then 230, then 245.

Interest is simply the price you pay to borrow money. When it gets paid doesn't matter. What it's called doesn't matter.

If you charge $15 to lend $200, then the $15 is interest ($15 / $100 = 7.5% interest, to be exact), no matter when it's paid, and no matter what it's called.
Dannydoyle
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Plus if you don't pay the $215 when agreed there are penalties is I'm not mistaken.
Danny Doyle
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<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
tommy
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I don’t know what Bill means by “when it gets paid doesn't matter”.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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rockwall
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On Sep 19, 2017, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 17, 2017, rockwall wrote:
But, lending money is immoral? That's a new one.


New one? New Testament maybe:

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Jesus_and_the_money_changers

And for Old Testament fans, there was the Jubilee Year, when debts were cancelled every 50 years.


Wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you so misinterpret a simple bible passage. Jesus wasn't upset with them for 'lending' money. That's pretty clear even from the link you posted.
Magnus Eisengrim
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Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, tommy wrote:
I don’t know what Bill means by “when it gets paid doesn't matter”.


I believe that he is making the distinction between interest, which is an amount of money, and interest rate, which is a percent per unity time. e.g. The interest might be $20, but the interest rate might be 12%/year.
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
rockwall
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As landmark and NYC have pointed out, people who borrow from payday lenders are probably desperate. Maybe they had an unexpected expense and now they don’t have the cash to buy groceries for their family. Maybe they need to get their car fixed or they’ll lose their job. Who knows?

So yes, I don’t have a problem saying that a payday lender is offering them some help by lending them some money until the end of the month to help them get through the month. I’m sure the people who need the money appreciate the loan a lot more than what landmark or NYC offers them. The desire to “work towards a society that doesn’t need them” or the moralizing about how “despicable” the lender is.

Landmark asked, “why would I start a business to exploit poor people?” Which of course is a straw man. I didn’t ask landmark to start a business to exploit poor people. But I’ll answer the question anyway. You might want to start a business to lend people short term money because you feel they are being taken advantage of and you would offer them a better deal to help them out.

Of course, that would be difficult. It’s much easier to offer them nothing and claim how ‘moral’ you are because of it.
S2000magician
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Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, tommy wrote:
I don’t know what Bill means by “when it gets paid doesn't matter”.

I do.

(He means that if you pay the fee/interest when you get the loan or pay the fee/interest when you repay the loan, it's still interest.)
tommy
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The truth is they are not payday loans to workers but are dole money loans which are given to people who cannot afford any interest at all without going hungry because they only get just enough dole money to live on. Therefore, then, these dirty no good loan sharks are starving the poor and the insane. In the interest of justice, all these bankers ought to be strung up at the nearest lamppost. All we need is a few pitchforks.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
landmark
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Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, rockwall wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 19, 2017, landmark wrote:
Quote:
On Sep 17, 2017, rockwall wrote:
But, lending money is immoral? That's a new one.


New one? New Testament maybe:

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Jesus_and_the_money_changers

And for Old Testament fans, there was the Jubilee Year, when debts were cancelled every 50 years.


Wow. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you so misinterpret a simple bible passage. Jesus wasn't upset with them for 'lending' money. That's pretty clear even from the link you posted.


The money changers charged an extortionist fee for exchanging money. It's pretty clear that He was more than angry and called them robbers.

For hundreds of years the Christian Church left money lending to the Jews, as they believed Christians should not be involved in such activity.

Your position is completely ahistorical. Charging interest has long been seen as an unsavory activity.
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