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NFox
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I am designing a visual (no box at all...just a table) sawing. If anyone out there would be willing to offer me some advice on how to "get out" of the illusion without cover that would be great. So if you have any ideas please PM me (or if you want more info (not too much)). If you have any illusions that you think could give me ideas on how to get out, please post them here, just in case someone else is trying to solve this same problem. Thanks.

Nick Fox
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

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RVH Magic
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There are already some versions out there:
-Copperfield has his Fearson laser sawing
-Creative illusions have the impossible sawing (Siegfried & Roy did a great version of this illusion)
-Peter Marvey has his final cut illusion (you find pictures of this on his web-site)
-Jonathan david Bass has his split chick (vertical cutting in 2)
-Rafael has his coach sawing (visible cutting in 2 on a coach )
OCanada
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For many years now, I have used our dancers and the costumes they wear to cover areas where we used to utilize a box or solid cover. The speed at which a dancer or assistant can move negates the idea that there was any thing 'hidden' from view at any time. Of course this must be used with adequate misdirection and 'PURPOSE'i.e. why would they be there in the first place.

Any time a piece is choreographed, this is the first question we ask ourselves. In the over 30 years I have performed large illusions, this ultimate question has seved me well.

Brian
Bill Hegbli
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You do not give any idea what is used, so how can we give advice? Do you use a stock over the body as in the visible power sawing?

To get out just stand up!
NFox
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In it's simplest form the sawing table is a table...picture Death-Saw without any box...on which the "victim" will be sawed while lying on their side.

Basically to solve the problem of getting "into the illusion" without a box I will simply make the girl (or myself, I really haven't decided which) appear in the position and place where she will be needed. Looking for the first time at the one publicity (edited) photo of "Final Cut" on Marvey's website, I'll tell you that what I created looks similar (I created this effect without knowing that Marvey had "Final Cut" it is not just a mod), but will be much different. I am currently playing with the idea of having the "Sawee" lying on their back at the beginning of the trick, and turning on their side in the process (possibly during an "escape gone wrong" scenario). I was figuring on using a giant arrow-head shaped blade (pneumatically driven) to divide the "sawee." I know I want the sawee to be able to walk around immediately after they are restored, and I have tried to think of every sort of misdirection/shielding possible (smoke, fire, water, a cloth, clothing, dancers, an object briefly put in front of her,...). That's pretty much where I am going (for those unclear): anyone have any original...or unoriginal ideas on how else I can mask the "dirty little secret." This Idea has been a few months in the making, and I would hate to see it not work becuase I can't find a reason to cover the victim long enough to facilitate the *cough**cough*.

Nick Fox

PS: I am toying with some names for this illusion too, tell me what you think of "See-Saw" (because you see the sawing...a little word play). I am also takign suggestions for this.
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

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The Wicked Mr. Grey
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I like your concept. I created a sawing in half-illusion and I had a similar problem. I think I know what you might be talking about so I'll give you my routine and you can see whether or not it might help you come up with something.

I stage is clear and the assistant walks on. All of a sudden, several men appear, grab her and place her on a table that is held from the top of the stage with chains. A large mechanical blade is brought out and this slices through her causing the two sides of the table to swing in opposite directions. When they are still, there are about two meters in between the two tables. Then I fly frombehind the audience on the stage like an angel sort of and bright white lights begin to shine from behind the victim and all around the theater. I land right in the middle of the 'cut' and bring the two sides of the table together. (my back is to the audience here). At this point, I put my hands under the victims knees and her neck and lift her in one of those 'saviour' poses and face the audience. Bright light shines for a VERY quick moment and then the lights return to completely normal... lighting up the stage so that everything is clear. I am no longer there (dissapeared) and the assistant is lying on the ground. Slowly wakes up and she is obviously restored and tada.... Smile:):)

Now my reasoning and justification for covering her middle (and just her middle; her legs (from the thighs down) and her chest (from the bellybutton up) are always in view) with my body is that I have to lift her and this makes sense. There's nothing funny about the move. This covering lasts long enough for me to just lift her off the table in the eyes of the audience but its really long enough to, in the words of Nick Fox, facilitate the *cough**cough*. Anyway, hopefully, this will mayb help you a little in some way.
What you have seen this evening was real, though it may have nothing to do with reality.



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NFox
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Wow, that sounds amazing. And thank you, you did give me a couple ideas. I don't know why but for some reason I kept assuming that I had to be behind the sawing table even after the girl is sawed. I am going to try playing with where I am instead of where she or my assistants would be. By the way, you wouldn't happen to have a video of your sawing that I could see...as I said, it sounds amazing.

Nick Fox
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

FoxIllusions.com
MikeJRogers
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From memory Mindfreaks sawing sounds similiar to Criss Angels. There is a short segment of the illusion on his website:

http://www.crissangel.com/criss_angel_mindfreak/video.htm

Click on Live Tour commercial.


As far as a solution to your problem goes, as in Minfreaks post, standing with your back to the audience for a few seconds while you bring the two halfs together for restoration gives you plenty of cover and time to 'do the deed'.

Good Luck!

Mike J Rogers
Mike Rogers Illusion Design - Australia - http://www.mikerogers.com.au
"Nothings impossible, the impossible just takes longer" - Dan Brown novel
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dsilverfield
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Hey for yer reference check out the Illusion called JUNK on http://www.illusionprojects.com
NFox
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DSilverfield: Could you be more specific about where I can check out "JUNK?" I can't seem to find it anywhere on illusionprojects.com.

Nick Fox
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

FoxIllusions.com
The Wicked Mr. Grey
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To Nick Fox,

Unfortunately I don't have a video of the illusion because due to the bright lights that create the heavenly atmosphere, I would need very good quality cameras to capture what the audience sees live properley.... and I do not have the funds to rent these cameras. I'm struggling as it is to put money together to create stuff.

But ***WARNING: SHAMLESS ADVERTISING TO FOLLOW!!!*** if you're in Toronto, Canada this October/November, maybe you'll catch my new show. I'm hoping to have it done and 'working' by then and also rent a theater and... well the whole shabang. But, at the moment, I'm still in the whole struggling to put everything together to work first and flow smoothly stage. Basically, heavy rehearsal and routining. Anyway.... at least I'm glad you like this piece of magic.


to MikeJRogers,

I will admit that much of the illusion layout was inspired by Criss Angel. Denying that would be... well, just plain wrong and ridiculous. Credit is due to those who deserve it.

Some time ago I was working on trying to develop some sort of sawing in half for my show that would fit with my personality. It was at this time that I went and saw Angel's live show and the layout of his illusion (with the table hanging from chains and spreading apart while the victim lays face up on the table cut in half and the saw from behind) and it struck me that this layout was absolutely perfect for what I was looking for. I put it to use. Now I'm not sure whether I use the same method as Angel or not but they seem to have their similarities. The presentation is different though, and it is my opinion that it is the presntation that makes the magic and not the 'trick.' I have also added modified the routine to include a flying from the back of the theater to the stage and a dissapearance. I think they add greatly to the effect and, well, they completely fit into my presentation style. But like I said, the actual physical illusion of the sawing itself does resemble Criss Angel's.

Anyways... good luck on your workings, Nick!!!!

Dorian Grey

P.S. For those of you who have the chance to go and see Criss Angel's live show.... GO!!!!! GO!!! GO!!!! It is utterly breathtaking. Whether or not you like him is a different issue, his show as a whole qualifies him as one of the top illusionists of our day.

As I was writing my last post, an idea struck me and I'm not sure what to think of it. Here is the idea for the effect.... and how it would fit into the context of my show. (As the show is story driven I should probably say that it is the story of a woman (early 20's) who doesn't believe in magic and it is her journey through several happenings which convince her that magic is real. Each of these happenings calls a being that seems to be angelic and full of magic who creates the magic which convinces her that magic is real.)

The present effect: At one point, the mysterious man/being stands apart from the girl and begins to float in the air. And then he flies over the heads of the audience and then he goes back to the stage (still flying/floating) and he floats to the top of the stage out of sight, among the lights where he is hidden by the curtain, (he's gone to heaven or w/e the audience interprets it as).

Now here's the tid-bit that popped into my head. Might it be possible to fly over the heads of the audiences and then, in a flash of light.... dissapear? This would lead into the next effect of the show... which I have previously described: it is the sawing. That effect would then be slightly modified by having me appear over the heads of the audience in the flash of light (after she is cut), fly to the stage and continue with the rest of the effect as before.

The problem. I have NO IDEA how I would achieve a vanish/appearance over the heads of the audieces while 'in flight.' Does anyone think this is feasible, probable, even possible? I don't necessarily want to spend months trying to design it at this time because of my tight schedule (school, designing the current content of the show, etc) but as I live by Copperfield's motto ("Nothing is impossible.") I'm bound to go to work on it. SO if anyone has any ideas or can send me reccomendations for books or particular concepts that I can use as references or starting points, it would be great. As of right now... I'm thinking of scrapping the idea until after the show but if I could do it... the show would be much better.

Feel free to PM me.

Thanks a lot for indulding my crazy fantasies (haha),

Dorian Grey
What you have seen this evening was real, though it may have nothing to do with reality.



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NFox
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It's amazing that you mentioned this because last week I too had this same idea. I am still trying to work out most of details (while adhering to the K.I.S.S. mentality), but it seems possible to me, even at this early stage. But right now I feel that my method requires too much from the theater. Hopefully it all works ot for both of us.

Nick Fox
"Obscuring Reality"- Gone but not forgotten...

FoxIllusions.com
MikeJRogers
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MindFreak,

The effect you described would certainly be impressive. I also have some designs on file that are similar. Here are my thoughts:

The levitation aspect of your illusion is both a disadvantage and an advantage. Firstly have you actually designed the apparatus for the levitation yet? The reason I ask this is that the method for the vanish would need to work in conjunction with the levitation. The rig used for the levitation could help with the vanish immensely. It could also create many complications. Remember that the levitation needs to not only be able to rise upwards but outwards as well.

Ask yourself the following questions:

- Is the show going to tour?
- What sort of roof structure does the theatre have?
- How far out from the stage are you levitating?
- What's your budget?

Also have a good think about the decoration you have around the theatre. Seeing as it's a themed show then it would be nice to have decoration such as hanging cloths or something.

Angles could also be tricky. The vanish needs to hold up to surrounded viewing. I think that a set of perfectly placed, powerful hidden blinder lights would overcome this.

I have given you some hints on how this can be achieved but I don’t want to give you the answer straight out. I feel that you can do this yourself with a bit of thought.

Keep in mind that this illusion is likely to be expensive due to the rigging involved. HOWEVER IT IS POSSIBLE.

Feel free to PM if you have any questions.

Good luck!

Mike
Mike Rogers Illusion Design - Australia - http://www.mikerogers.com.au
"Nothings impossible, the impossible just takes longer" - Dan Brown novel
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dsilverfield
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Hi NFOX,
I did not find it myself. It was there a few months ago and has been removed for some reason. The name is Junk and there was an Artist's impression pic of the idea. I think Tim will send you a picture if you e mail him.
Cheers and while you r at it, I am trying to get I n touch with Christopher Hart { Hand Act}. Can you help me with his website or e mail Id etc?
The Wicked Mr. Grey
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Mike J Rogers,

The thing is, I already have all the rigs and equiptment for the show as it is now except for two illusions but those I'm still trying to think of how I want them to LOOK in the context of the show so those are still open to chage but all of the other effects are more or less set in stone.

At the moment, I'm planning to have the show run one week (its all I can afford for the moment on my budget) in Toronto. Then, if I have good reviews and enough profits (which I hope to through publicity) I hope to take it on a tour through Canada.

As for the actual levitation rig, like I said, I have not only designed it, I already have it. This is why I was saying that it would be difficult for me to do the vanish: I would have to modify the already built rig to accomodate the improved effect. It goes out quite far into the audience (almost in the middle of the theater) but I'm planning to use either Massey Hall or the Hummingbird Center (if you have by any change heard of them) for the theater. They are both very professional and I know that they will accomodate me fully with w/e I want so that is no problem.

Anyways... I didn't sleep last night because I was so excited by this idea and I've solved a lot the problem because my levitation rig actually works really well to help the vanish/reappearance if I get a little creative. I hadn't thought of blinder lights, but I think that they might greatly help. Wow, doing the really general design for the effect was actually ten times easier than I thought it would be. FUN FUN!!

As for my budget... well, I've passed the point of expensive a long time ago and I've slaving away to make money to keep paying for this. But hey, living a dream is priceless, right? haha..... Smile Smile

Thank a lot for your help!!!! Now I'll go get some sleep!

Dorian Grey
What you have seen this evening was real, though it may have nothing to do with reality.



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MikeJRogers
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Congratulations Dorian! I knew you could it.

Just out of interest is the levitation rig a stock rig or custom built?

Good luck with your show,

Mike
Mike Rogers Illusion Design - Australia - http://www.mikerogers.com.au
"Nothings impossible, the impossible just takes longer" - Dan Brown novel
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The Wicked Mr. Grey
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The rig is custom built.... and it was quite expensive.

Thanks,

Dorian Grey
What you have seen this evening was real, though it may have nothing to do with reality.



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MikeJRogers
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Dorian,

Thanks for the info, sounds great. Hope your new show works out well.

Take care,

Mike

PS: I sent you a PM
Mike Rogers Illusion Design - Australia - http://www.mikerogers.com.au
"Nothings impossible, the impossible just takes longer" - Dan Brown novel
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sbiz
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The Jack Hughes Visible Sawing in Half is a portable, easy to perform effct that works almost anywhere and still gives the audience the excitement of the sawing. It is really a "sawing Thru" illusion. I have been using this since 1972 mostly for publicity as it can be used on the table top in a newspaper office.
Just my comments.

George Schindler
Just for the fun of it
Peter Loughran
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I thought you guys might like to view my new illusion, if you like visible sawings, without a box, this is right up your alley!

http://www.masterofillusions.ca/master_o......ours.htm

Be sure to watch the video at the bottom of the page!

Best,

P.
Brand New: - SNAKE BITE ILLUSION
www.masterofillusions.ca

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www.plasterrockmovie.com
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