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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Latest and Greatest? » » Peeled Coin by Lloyd Barnes (7 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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pegasus
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Quote:
On Oct 1, 2017, mh1001 wrote:
I'm not surprised, you missed the point. I explained already there are bad and good tricks and why this one is a good illustration. I don't expect you can understand that, though.


You just need to work on your confidence. I know you can make this work.
Slackerking
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I disagree that this is either a good or a bad trick. I guarantee that good coin workers could make this look astounding. Most people like me won’t be able to make this look effective. That makes it a poor choice for me personally but not a bad trick.
mh1001
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Pegasus : I don't see you as either a serious performer or even a serious thinker. And I don't think you're a great contributor here, either. And if you feel I don't make sense, I couldn't care less.

Slackerking : You're a cook, if you have inefficient tools, you are disadvantaged compared to a situation when you have efficient tools, which allow you to do the job faster and better. It's no different here. There are tricks which involve unnatural moves, so that make them a bad trick. There are tricks which are inherently suspicious because of "what" they are (e.g., biting a coin with your teeth). Some tricks are surefire, some definitely aren't, and those tricks have outcomes that are clearly more sensitive to the type of audience you're facing. If it works one day, the next day, it may not. I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand. It's so simple-minded to think that the only thing which matters in magic is the performer and only the performer, and nothing else. That's not true. Many other factors matter as well.
MeetMagicMike
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Mh1001 wrote:

Quote:
There are tricks which are inherently suspicious because of "what" they are (e.g., biting a coin with your teeth). Some tricks are surefire, some definitely aren't, and those tricks have outcomes that are clearly more sensitive to the type of audience you're facing. If it works one day, the next day, it may not. I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand. It's so simple-minded to think that the only thing which matters in magic is the performer and only the performer, and nothing else. That's not true. Many other factors matter as well.


This is well stated. Would you also agree it is simplistic to label a trick good or bad? A good stage trick may be a bad close-up trick. A bad trick for a hobbyist may be a great trick for a pro. A good trick for a Eugene Burger may be a lousy trick for me.
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pegasus
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Quote:
On Oct 1, 2017, mh1001 wrote:
Pegasus : I don't see you as either a serious performer or even a serious thinker. And I don't think you're a great contributor here, either. And if you feel I don't make sense, I couldn't care less.

Slackerking : You're a cook, if you have inefficient tools, you are disadvantaged compared to a situation when you have efficient tools, which allow you to do the job faster and better. It's no different here. There are tricks which involve unnatural moves, so that make them a bad trick. There are tricks which are inherently suspicious because of "what" they are (e.g., biting a coin with your teeth). Some tricks are surefire, some definitely aren't, and those tricks have outcomes that are clearly more sensitive to the type of audience you're facing. If it works one day, the next day, it may not. I don't understand why it's so difficult to understand. It's so simple-minded to think that the only thing which matters in magic is the performer and only the performer, and nothing else. That's not true. Many other factors matter as well.


Look, I can see that you've thrown your dummy out of the Pram because there's no Euro version, so why not just be happy for us that can, and will perform it without raising any suspicion.
Smile
videoman
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Quote:
On Oct 1, 2017, MeetMagicMike wrote:
Would you also agree it is simplistic to label a trick good or bad? A good stage trick may be a bad close-up trick. A bad trick for a hobbyist may be a great trick for a pro. A good trick for a Eugene Burger may be a lousy trick for me.


Yes, that is why every review or opinion has to judged against what is right for the individual reading the review.

But virtually every marketed effect is intended for a certain situation or type of performance. So I would presume that anyone expressing an opinion is doing so based on using the trick in the correct environment. If someone states that they think the latest card or coin trick is terrible, I assume that they are NOT basing that on the fact that they perform grand illusions in an arena show and it's too small for their venue. That's a given.

So when anyone expresses their opinion here I think we all assume that they are basing that within the context in which it was intended for, and within that context I think you can state whether you believe it to be bad or good, especially if you also present the reasons that your opinions are based on.
mh1001
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MeetMagicMike, we are not talking about the same thing. There are tricks so well designed that it takes a lot of imagination to understand how it works. And there are tricks which are so simplistic that people easily understand how it works. One such trick is the ring on chain, or ickle pickle. One of the very first non-card tricks I learned and performed. My handling was super clean, no finger movement, and yet about 1/3 of the time, people understood what happened, even worse was children, every time I did this for children, at least one or two of them gave the correct answer. Even if they were wrong, it's irrelevant to them, as they believe they are right. Whether they are actually right or not, the consequence is that they are not impressed. Even if they enjoyed it : every time I did that trick, people enjoyed it and discussed about it. But I stopped doing it.

There are several objective reasons why this trick isn't good, despite what you and videoman say. Compare it with a signed coin bend. Objectively, a signed coin would decrease the likelihood to suspect a switch versus a non-signed coin. Furthermore, by giving away the coin as a souvenir, people know it's not an illusion, or a trick coin. When I did this to people, sometimes, they tell me "I know magic is just an illusion, nothing is real... but this bent coin, it's not an illusion !". You can't have this kind of reaction with Peeled, not just because of the nature of the trick (a peeled coin is an outcome that is much more unreal, by definition, compared to a bent coin) but also because you're actually not giving away the peeled coin. So people actually give you their coin, and they end up with what ? The same coin which they have started with. When I use my Quantum Bender, I give them an impossible souvenir. Their coin has changed, and the change is real. Unlike with Peel (let alone the unconvincing peel and restoration of the coin during performance).

videoman & MeetMagicMike, you mention at some point stage shows. This is not comparable at all. There is first the issue of visibility, the audience can't see the coin anyway, unless you have big screen with large zooming. I'm not talking about tricks which are more suited for stage vs close-up, as such comparison would be completely irrelevant. There's also the issue of examinability. People know and understand that the magician will not let you examine their props. Many stage shows don't even involve spectators getting on stage. I'm convinced that people know that when you do close-up magic, which is much more intimate, they have the importunity to examine your props, as they know it isn't possible to do that when they see magic on TV, stage shows, street magic, etc. Even if you compare among tricks best suited for stage shows, it's always (and objectively) stronger if you do a trick which involve people leaving with an impossible souvenir, something that makes them believe what they witnessed is (or may) not be an illusion. No matter what your skills (ability or presentational) are, there are tricks which themselves make you a reputation (if you perform them at least correctly, e.g., without flashing, but not necessarily with great skills).

Here's the thing. Good thinking creates good tricks. Bad thinking creates bad tricks. That's why there are bad and good tricks for the exact same reason there are good and bad thinkers, good and bad performers, good and bad ... in everything.

It's as simple as this : tricks are not "neutral" like air, sky, earth, water, etc. It sounds silly to say that but it's people who create tricks. Some creations are bad, some aren't. By saying that there aren't good or bad tricks, I feel sometimes that people forget it's us who create tricks.
MeetMagicMike
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I'm saying it's simplistic to label a trick good or bad. It's much better to describe the tricks strengths and weaknesses. I agree with a lot of you're specific points but not in applying such a broad label.

The ring and chain trick isn't a bad trick. A lot of people like it and it gets the reaction that some magicians want. It's not the deepest mystery.

"I don't see any potential in this" is a factual statement if that is how you feel. "This is a bad trick" less useful.
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mh1001
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Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, MeetMagicMike wrote:
"I don't see any potential in this" is a factual statement if that is how you feel. "This is a bad trick" less useful.

"This is a bad trick" is useless if you don't explain why. Same as saying "you're a bad performer". Such comment isn't helpful because of the absence of any arguments here.

When I say a trick isn't good, I always explain why. Some are so simplistic than nearly anyone can figure that out, such as the ring on chain trick. Some however are so impossible, e.g., Business Card Revolution, to name just one, that it needs such a high level of imagination that I don't think it's possible to attain. For instance, BCR gets reactions that are 1000000000...0000... times way stronger than the ring on chain, no matter how good your skills are and your presentational skills are.

It's an objective remark to say that Peeled weakness is the inability to give away the "modified" coin. I've seen several, not few, mentalists, here, saying that gimmicked keys and forks which bend themselves are not so nice because you can't give it away. And this takes away the magic. And that's right. Yet no one has made that comment regarding Peeled. It doesn't matter if this is what I feel, because I'm confident this is also what 99% of the spectators will feel.
MaxfieldsMagic
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I like it - seems a bit like mismade bill done with a coin. You change the coin in a really surrealistic, almost comical way, wait a beat, change it back and hand it out. Bam, you're off to the next thing.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
KazMagic
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Hmmm not sure if it is worth 30 bucks
tophatter
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Maybe better illusion with a shuttle pass grab a lighter melt & tear apart the coin End Clean ! no restoration of the coin .
1KJ
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I just ordered this and I'm looking forward to it. One of the posts on this thread talked about switching this for a "scarred" coin at the end to leave them with an impossible souvenir. I really like that idea. It's not that much more difficult to do two switches than one. I'm thinking of just taking a dremmel fine disk cutter and cutting down the middle of the edge of half the coin. That would only take around a minute or two per coin, and it would make a great souvenir.

On a related, but separate note, I would love to learn how to make a cut-out angel in a penny. I think that would make an even better souvenir, maybe a seque from this trick to a penny trick.

KJ
tophatter
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I am also interested in purchasing this were did you oreder from ? I thought ellusionist is out of business ?
pegasus
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On Jan 13, 2021, tophatter wrote:
I am also interested in purchasing this were did you oreder from ? I thought ellusionist is out of business ?


Not yet. Quite.

https://ellusionist.com/
lunatik
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Quote:
On Jan 13, 2021, tophatter wrote:
I am also interested in purchasing this were did you oreder from ? I thought ellusionist is out of business ?



it seems they are out of the US coin, but do have the UK at less than $10

https://ellusionist.com/products/peeled-coin-by-lloyd-barnes
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1KJ
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Yes, I bought the UK coin version. I don't even know what it is. Once I get it, I'll figure out if I purchase a regular coin to match or if I try to make one out of a quarter. I really would prefer to have one made from a quarter.

KJ
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