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RobertMarsi Loyal user 237 Posts 
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Bill Montana has just released a dynamic new DVD video called Guru. It can only be found at the new website for magicians and mentalists skywardmagic.com
In this work, Bill Montana gives over an hour of video instruction for those who wish to take their mentalism into the metaphysical market. You will learn bio-mechanical effects, get insights into how to present your material, and otherwise get a crash-course in the art of becoming a Guru. Effects taught: Grow Larger Psychokinetic plastic Shiva and the Crystal Ancient Vs Modern Pyramid Power Variation Pyramid Props Paper Pyramid Carbon and a Magnet David Hoy Back of the Room Fortune Telling Psychic Outs Board of Ramalan Die of Ramanan Tarot Marker And Much More! If you are interested, you can find this DVD at this link: http://skywardmagic.com/shop/categories/......al/guru/ |
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David Numen Inner circle 2076 Posts
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One hopes it's somewhat less of a rambling execrable mess than his Penguin lecture.
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MagicBrent Inner circle 2574 Posts
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I'd like to see a trailer but I guess it's metaphysical and propless?
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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When I work in any semblance of a metaphysical situation, I work clean. Just actual intuition.
If I am using trickery, it must always be clear that I am entertainer. I have no idea what is in this DVD, so don't get me wrong - this could well just be marketing hype - but being a guru (which means spiritual teacher) is something that you can't (or at least shouldn't) trick your way into. And if you did use deception in order to get honestly seeking people to think that you are something that you are not, I think it's different than presenting mentalism as entertainment. Different as in bad.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Gumar Oz DuBar Loyal user 244 Posts
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This is a great DVD for anyone looking to learn how to work in the metaphysical market!
Packed with practical information and a great source to those who already work in this market but want to add things they're sure not to find anywhere else. Bill Montana has some great thinking and if you want to learn ways of working in the metaphysical market, then this crash course is something you'd be very interested in and something that would be very beneficial to you. If you do readings or metaphysical work, Bill's thinking and material is invaluable. Highly recommended from someone that actually uses a great deal of this particular material and makes money with it.
I write and edit text.
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts
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Anyone who claims to be doing it "for real", and yet uses trick methodology, is either deliberately deluding themselves or deliberately exploiting others. Not a good look, either way.
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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So then - does this have 'methods' on it?
Gumar has said in another thread that he doesn't use trickery at all....
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Gumar Oz DuBar Loyal user 244 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: I never said that I don't use trickery, if you read what I wrote, I said trickery isn't required. I also said, in so many words, that it is usually over-the-top, so it isn't needed. I don't use trickery, because I don't need to, but I never said that I don't, so even though that's true, don't put words in my mouth. Also, avoid looking a fool and actually read what I write when addressing me to avoid confusion.
I write and edit text.
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Gumar Oz DuBar wrote: I'm not quite sure I've followed that. Are you now confirming that you don't use trickery? |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 1, 2017, RobertMarsi wrote: Thank you, Robert. I'll take your word over those who are speculating. And I know Bill actually works this market so, if he is giving advice on how people could enter and approach it may be a little more useful than the advice you get from people dispense their wisdom here but have never done and never been. It is a catchy title, Guru. 
Tony |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Gumar Oz DuBar wrote: Um.... Avoiding confusion is impossible with this sentence.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Tony Iacoviello wrote: Not sure if you're including me here, but let me say this. I have been closely involved with the metaphysical scene for most of my life, albeit not as a mentalist. While of course readings and divination do have a place and are totally appropriate, I feel it is morally wrong to use deceit or trickery on people who are genuinely seeking knowledge. It shows a profound lack of respect for the people you are working with if you use trickery on people who assume you to be genuine. That is completely different than a mentalist working in an entertainment capacity. I would hope that is not a controversial statement.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Last Laugh wrote: Matthew: I don't use trickery either and have been part of the New Age community since the 1970s. I grew up two towns over from Salem MA, and two towns over from Cambridge MA. And was associated with both communities, and still am. One of my earliest real mentors was Ray Buckland, who just passed into the light. And although I don't used trickery, many people do as a hook or a way of accentuating a point. After all Religion is Show Business. Public speaking is public speaking, teaching is teaching,illustrating a point with a special effect is commonplace. Have you ever been to a fire circle where flash paper, powder, or some other magic additive wasn't used? In the past 30 years, I haven't. Perhaps you would care to shed light on why you are making these comments which shine a negative light on a product you have not seen? Do you protest gospel magicians? What type of object lessons are acceptable to Matthew Mayavi? Not having seen the video yet, I have nothing to say about it. But like me, Bill has been there, has a verifiable pedigree, and is older than my children. Tony |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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I don't mean to be negative, and as I said in my first post - I wasn't commenting on this product specifically. However the cover + plus the copy did give me pause, and that is why I said something.
I think there is a line between entertainment and taking advantage of others. Gospel magic is magic. It's not presented as gods actual miracles. If you purport to be a spiritual teacher, and you use deceit or trickery, then you are doing a disservice to your students. You are making them believe that you are capable of something that you aren't. Therefore you are not teaching them truth. Worse is a certain type of cynicism with regards to the people who are honestly seeking. Those who look down with condescension on people who genuinely hold these beliefs. I understand the use of 'hooks' and I see them in the traditional martial arts community as well (body magic stuff presented as Chi), but I disagree with them for the most part. You are creating unrealistic expectations and that is a disservice to your 'students'. You say that Religion is show business and you are correct of course, however there should always be an honest contract between performer and participants in this respect. In the cases that I feel go more in the direction of taking advantage, the audience believes that what they are seeing is real. Not like in a mentalism show where the contract is one of entertainment, but where the performer is purporting to teach spiritual lessons and is demonstrating the results of his spiritual practice. I just don't think this is that morally ambiguous... Again - to reiterate - I don't know what is in the this video. My comments were based on the copy and the cover, which gives of a bit of a cynical tone.
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Tony Iacoviello Eternal Order 13151 Posts
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You are making a lot of assumptions and avoided the topic of object lessons and the use of special effects to punctuate a point or get a point across. Gospel magic is used by some during services to do just as I have stated. Who is to say what is on this is any different?
Not having seen the video, I am not willing to make assumptions. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfvTwv5o1Qs
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Bill Cushman Inner circle Florida 2876 Posts
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I have seen work from Bill where he unapologetically teaches how to use trickery to make money from people in the metaphysical community. He is very honest about this. And quite knowledgeable.
Matthew, how do you feel about the use of trickery in shamanism, in service of creating "buy-in" for a cure? While I agree with most of what you wrote, this area gives me pause. |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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Tony, I see your point, and I really have tried to qualify my statements that I am expressing my opinion and have not seen the video. To your point about special effects - I think there will be some situations where special effects are fine and others where they are not.
Ultimately its about respect for you students/participants/audiences. Do you genuinely want them to grow or are you more interested in taking advantage of their belief systems for your own gain, whether it be ego or money or both. Would you admit that it was a special effect? Or would you lie in the situation where you are asked? I think that anyone that works in 'genuine' circles should consider their motivations and desires very carefully. Can we agree on that?
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Last Laugh Inner circle Grass Valley, California 3498 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 2, 2017, Bill Cushman wrote: Well again - here we come upon the line. I think it really it worth considering this individually for each performer. Shamanism may be a good example of 'Sacred Trickery' if there is such a thing (and I think there is). It comes down to ego I think. If the goal is GENUINELY to heal another person and the trickery is done in this selfless manner, perhaps that is a good thing. I'm not sure I could believe that Shamanism techniques could be learned via DVD though....
My Mentalism Podcast:
The Mystery Arts Podcast Check out my products! Direct from me (PW: cassidy) On Penguin Magic |
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Martin Pulman Inner circle London 3399 Posts
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If you are using trickery in a non-entertainment scenario you are a charlatan -plain and simple.
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Caveman Regular user 118 Posts
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Quote:
On Oct 3, 2017, Martin Pulman wrote: Hasn't religion been a source of entertainment for centuries? Now, I have no problem calling plenty of religious figures charlatans, but they do seem to give the people what they want. How many people would beleive in Jesus minus the magic? Lots of guys have great messages, but people tend to pay better attention when there's some magic involved. India, as you know, has a rich tradition of magic; magic solely for entertainment, and magic to accentuate a point. Gurus have been using it for ages. I don't like taking advantage of people's gullibility, but there's an element of art as medicine to what they do...I find this stuff fascinating. It's not like it's the streetside 3 card monte in NYC. Is it okay when the practitioner is a shut eye, performing a ritual that is elsewhere used as trickery? Is every Shaman a shut eye? (certainly not), but they provide a valuable spiritual resource to their community. What do you guys think of Sai Baba? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJYgXXvRSec Just some thoughts. As for the DVD and Mr Montana, I haven't seen it, and know little of his work, my thoughts are only in response to some of the dialogue in this thread. |
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Posted: Oct 1, 2017 12:15 pm 
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